Jolie Shapiro00:01.218
Welcome to Revenue Mind, a podcast where our leaders talk about mental health. Julia, host, and with us is Tim. Welcome, Tim.
Tim Davidson00:09.953
Hello and thank you for having me. I'm really really excited.
Jolie Shapiro00:13.366
Yeah, yeah, super excited time to this topic and thank you for sounding up. know that a lot of times people say no to podcasts because they're especially busy like yourself. So really appreciate you topping on. Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, so before we dive into the questions, we have a lot of heavy hitting topics. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Tim Davidson00:25.685
Eh, make it busy, to be honest. Thank Yeah. So my name Tim. am the founder of a company called B2B Riz, which is an AVM with LinkedIn ads, a consultancy for B2B SaaS. I started that about eight months ago, but before that I was the head of marketing for a performance marketing agency. been in B2B for, B2B for really, really into B2B for probably like six years, but before that I was kind of in the B2C slash B2B realm. but in marketing, paid media. And now it's just, I'm at that point where I'm one person shop and I'm kind of loving it.
Jolie Shapiro01:23.128
That's awesome, yeah, there's a big movement toward having your own thing.
Tim Davidson01:28.587
Yeah, big time.
Jolie Shapiro01:30.638
That's awesome. Send on to the questions. Can you, and this is a lot of this is from our pre pre call. So we appreciate you taking the time to look through these. Can you share a pivotal moment that challenge your mental well being and how you navigate through it?
Tim Davidson01:33.986
Yeah. Yes, so about two years ago now Again, I was at a company I wasn't by myself. I My wife and I had a stillbirth and that would have been our first child I was a first child and I've never never done anything like that You know, luckily I haven't dealt with a lot of death in my family either so I've never dealt with anything like that my wife You know has an obviously there It was something I didn't know how to expect and To be honest, I think I worked more to not think about it. In hindsight, I'm mad at myself for doing that. The company did give me some time off and all that, and they were very good about it, but I kind of just sunk myself into working more, just because I didn't know how to deal with it. And it's one those things where no one knows how deal with it, right? But I think it... I think it just taught me to... to think about everything outside of work. I've always been someone that loves to work. I like just doing things. Even if I'm on vacation, I'll just, I'll check the Slack, I'll do all that stuff and I'll justify it somehow. And it was that point where after I worked even more, I kind of realized that was a very silly mistake and there's so much more outside of work. And the interesting part of that is it actually makes, I would debate it makes you better at work once you have the things that you do outside of work.
Jolie Shapiro03:44.664
Thank you so much and I'm so sorry for your loss. I think that's a really good point. I think it puts a lot of things into perspective. And it's like, it's a job. You know, like there's, mean, a lot of us are not a lot of us. Some of us are very fortunate to be passionate about what we do, especially starting your own thing. And you're really good at it and you love it. And you're a VP. I know you joked about giving yourself your own title, which is awesome. You're like, I'm VP of marketing. It's like, hell yeah. But I think, yeah, you just, think that kind of stuff just makes you realize.
Tim Davidson03:59.831
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro04:26.442
is that there's a lot more to life than work. Yeah, so that makes a lot of sense. And so I'll ask the next question. You're very funny. Your LinkedIn posts are, honestly, I try to figure out how you do your LinkedIn posts, like where you're talking to yourself. I think that's so cool. I'm like, how is he doing that? Like you're, I saw a recent one where you're hiking and you're, filming yourself hiking. I'm like, how is he, how is he getting the angles with that? But, your sense of humor has been a tool you mentioned in our, in our prep call for managing tough situations. So how do you maintain a genuine connection with your audience?
Tim Davidson04:57.365
yeah. Yeah, think I mean the good thing is that the Trying to be funny or the the comedian part the comic part or whatever you want to call it. It's it's kind of my my My personality luckily, so it's not like I have to try too hard to do that. It's just kind of my personality. It's always been Even growing up. It's just how I coped with things and that's how I've kind of Done things you know, even in bad spots, there's times I shouldn't be try to be funny. And that's what I do. And it's kind of like also, you know, it's probably not the best thing all the time. But I think it helps me in a lot because I'm just because at the end the day, it's just my personality. Right. And I think people relate to the personality. And, know, if it comes off authentic, you're going to be connected to that. I also have thought about this a lot. And a lot of the things I talk about I can be serious at times obviously, and you know, talk about things that, you know, things I know or things I think about. but there's also some topics that because I'm using humor, I can make fun of them and call them out directly. but if I didn't use humor, it would probably come off in a different way. And so I think that's been very helpful for me to call things out. and not get a lot of backlash just because I'm coming at it from a humorous way, but also, you know, making fun of myself as well. For all the things I do make fun of, I also make fun of myself for doing those type of things as well, because that's where a lot of the experience comes from. You know, and even tactically, think the humor just helps me stick out sometimes too. I'm not good at talking in videos. I'm not good at being serious in videos. I don't think they would get the engagement that they do if I didn't have a comedic way to them or add addition to them. That also allows me to get my point across.
Jolie Shapiro07:26.324
it. Do you feel like, and this is probably a therapeutic question so feel free to not answer so we can do a retake, do you feel like you use humor to deflect?
Tim Davidson07:38.199
yeah, I can't think of any good examples right now, but I'm sure I do. I know I do. It's just... No, mean, to answer your question 100%, is that a good or bad thing? Probably not the best, but I think it is just something I've used as a coping mechanism for some situations.
Jolie Shapiro08:05.336
Got it, and a lot of us do. I mean, I feel like so many, you're definitely not the only one. So many of us use humor as a coping mechanism. So thank you for being so open about therapy and our call. Would love to ask how it's influenced your leadership style and decision -making in a high -pressure situation. Would love to get a sense of that from you.
Tim Davidson08:07.436
ever. Yeah, so going to therapy for about two years, I just checked this recently, about two years. I've done, I've definitely done some therapy which is just for me, me and a therapist. But a lot of therapy I go to is actually couples therapy. And I think that's been the most helpful because... I might come off in my videos, like I might talk a lot, but sometimes I'm not the, I don't talk a lot. Like if you've ever seen me at an event, I actually do not, I cannot go up to people I don't know. It's just not my thing. My video is my show that I would be talkative or whatever, but I'm not. I'm very quiet person. I'm very self -observed. So I would, the therapy I think has helped me be more open in talking about certain things. that I might just have. just not even set or just not been, it's not like I'm not being honest. just I wouldn't have said anything because I didn't want to bring it up or whatever it is. I think that's been helpful and kind of very helpful in like leadership, because it's all communication. So at the of the day, it's like, I think the therapy has helped me a lot in the last two years, especially with communication with my wife, with my family, friends, and then also in the workplace. You know, now I imagine I'm a one person shop, but I do have virtual assistants and I work with freelancers and that communication is super, super important. and I think that's helped me understand how to communicate, not only just just communicate, but communicate in an effective way.
Jolie Shapiro10:13.524
amazing and it's so interesting because you're right looking at your videos you'd think you'd be the like this chatterbox. I'm naturally introverted myself actually. I tend to listen rather than talk. Yeah, yeah and I've actually I heard I read somewhere that sometimes the the leaders that are the best leaders are the ones that listen.
Tim Davidson10:31.735
Yeah, me too. Yeah, no, and that's a really good thing, right? But sometimes you do need to communicate that, right? What you're hearing. I think sometimes I would listen too much. And that's obviously a good thing, right? To understand and listen. But if you can't communicate to the next person or the next team member, there's a gap there.
Jolie Shapiro10:48.523
Exactly. Yeah, it's like telephone. It's like if you like the game needs to place kids, like if you can't communicate the message, how are you going to do it?
Tim Davidson11:06.435
100%. Yeah, especially when you're giving feedback and things like that. if you're not, like I've caught myself not give people feedback because I didn't want to communicate. Right. And I know that's hurting them. cause I get, that's how you learn, right? You get feedback, constructive feedback. Obviously, you know, if you're berating someone, it's not gonna be helpful, but, yeah, if you, the community, how you communicate feedback and how you communicate to people, it's going to be super helpful for you and them.
Jolie Shapiro11:40.952
Definitely. So shifting a little bit. So you've cut down your work hours while boosting your productivity, which is super cool. What's your strategy for balancing productivity with mental health?
Tim Davidson11:56.471
So I should mention I've had to do that because we now have a four month old. So it's not like I, it was kind of forced essentially. But how do I balance it? It's just, I'm not gonna lie, I don't think I have a good way of balancing it because I'm not a nine to five person. I just can't, I, know. I have to take care of the baby at 10 a or 3 p whatever that is. But being able to prioritize being very, the important tasks for clients and just internally has been super, super important. I think what has really been interesting is how many things I really shouldn't or need to do that I was doing. Just because it seemed like I needed to do them. Like I think that was even the biggest shift from going Working for a company to own my own thing where I can make all the decisions There are so many things. I really did not have to do with that company that had no bu - It's not just that company. There's tons of company I've worked with or you know been a part of that I they really don't impact anything, but you have to because it's a bigger company or you know, it's just part of the the culture or whatever that is. And obviously at end of the day, that's super helpful for your mental health is if you can do more with less essentially and use that other time for family, for things outside of work, that's super, super important.
Jolie Shapiro13:38.702
Yeah, that's a great point. It's funny, I was the kind of person, I was 20 and I called 50 record labels until I got a record label to hire me as an intern. That was a little bit insane.
Tim Davidson13:56.919
That's awesome.
Jolie Shapiro14:01.742
That was back when people actually picked up the phone. This was like 10 years ago, 12 years ago at this point. But I think what I've realized as I've gotten older is, and we talked about it a bit before, is kind of like realizing there's more to life than work.
Tim Davidson14:07.069
Thank
Jolie Shapiro14:18.886
And especially I think for you and for others that are parents, you bring this human into the world and you're like, wait a second, like I want to spend time with you. I want to see you grow up. Like I actually I found out so I originally thought I wasn't able to have kids. I thought I was going to have a need a surrogate and I recently found out that I can have kids. Yeah, that was a huge. That was a huge, that was very mind blowing. Because for like 10 years I thought I couldn't have kids. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get a surrogate and all this other stuff. But it's really cool and you think about how this is great, I love my job, love what I do, but how can I fill up my life to be as fulfilling as it can be?
Tim Davidson15:12.119
Yeah. Wow. And I don't know if you say congrats to that, like that's, that's, that's amazing. Wow.
Jolie Shapiro15:12.236
So I love that. Yeah, don't know. I don't know what you say to that. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I was under this impression for like 12 years and I literally just found out three months ago. So I appreciate that. Yeah, this is actually the first time I've talked about it on a podcast. So you're inspiring me.
Tim Davidson15:38.403
Wow, well, that's amazing.
Jolie Shapiro15:42.05
Yeah, yeah, me too. So let's get back to the questions. Let's see. I'm gonna cut this out obviously because I need to look. Here we go. So shifting a little bit, just wanna get on the revenue train. So how do you maintain resilience when chasing aggressive growth targets?
Tim Davidson16:08.739
I don't have a good answer for this because the answer is almost like you just almost you have to. You have to be resilient because that's not you're not going to hit the growth goal. Like if there are huge growth goals you're not going to hit them without being like super resilient. And so that could be as you you that could be calling 50 record labels to get an internship or 50 record labels to get the deal. Whatever that is like you have to be If you're hit aggressive growth goals, you have to be resilient and you have to think differently. That's how you build these massive companies. The answer is you have to. I mean, you really have to. But I will say, like, one thing. It's kind of counterintuitive, but you almost need to give you and your team time to be creative, to be able to these growth goals, or crazy, aggressive growth goals. because the only way you're to hit them is if your team can be creative, but you need to give them time to be creative, but they don't have, it's kind of a loop because you don't really have the time because they're trying to hit these aggressive growth goals. But if you can, you should 100 % give your team or yourself more time to be creative. So you can actually think about how do, how you're going to hit these goals and actually do it. because without that time to be creative, it's going to be very hard.
Jolie Shapiro17:45.464
That makes sense. And where do you think your resilience comes from?
Tim Davidson17:50.753
I it probably comes from passion, if think about it. Being passionate to do something. For me, I'm a very curious person. When I'm testing new things, when I'm trying new things, I love to travel because I'm curious and I love to see new things. That passion, I think, keeps me to be resilient. It's what keeps people to be resilient. Because if those growth goals, you see this all the time. If it's just about the money, people are going to quit. But if you're passionate about something, obviously you get compensated as well, then they'll be resilient and they'll just keep driving.
Jolie Shapiro18:40.494
Yeah, it's funny that notes, it's really true. It's kind of like the 50 record labels. I was a songwriter from my time I was 11 and I really wanted to go to the music industry and I'm like, well, I wanna be part of Capitol Records. So Ring Ring. Yeah, I feel like if you really, a lot of people, if you really want something. and you're super passionate about it, you just go for it. And if, I mean, at least if I'm not into something, it's really hard for me to get into it. I don't know about you, but for me at least, like getting into something and like, like kind of like when a book doesn't catch your attention in the first sentence, you're like, no, I'm not gonna do this.
Tim Davidson19:19.075
100%. Yeah. No, I agree. At least for me, for things like that, sometimes I found I need to, like, for example, as a book, if I see it I'm like, this is looks great, I need to act on it quick. Because sometimes those that that passion can change. And if you act on it quick, or it's like, I should try this. And you act on it quick, you might start to see that kind of why it's great book or not, you maybe it's not and you just stop it. But if it's something like a project or something like that, then you start to see the traction on it and you started to see you get those kind of those neuron firing and you just kind of see, see, this is cool. Like this is, I'm trying this. And you started to see that progression. Then you keep going. There's so many things I've taken a screenshot of or I just said, I'll do it later. And I just never do it because I lose the passion or I just. decide I don't have time for it or whatever it is. But if I start it, I'm more likely to finish it because one, I've already started it, but you start to see that traction.
Jolie Shapiro20:38.444
Yeah, it's a really good point. think when you start something, a lot of people want to finish it. So that's awesome. So back to humor. Do you have an example where humor positively impacted your work environment, whether in team dynamics or client interactions? Love to hear about that.
Tim Davidson20:45.762
Yeah. think it's... It's hard to say if there's a specific time because that's, again, it's my personality, right? So I think if I can make someone laugh in a call, if I can bridge the gap with humor or something like that, it just builds that relationship with the clients and coworkers. I think that type of thing is just ingrained in what I do. So I think it's just super important overall. There's... definitely been times where we've had meetings where it's like a bad meeting. It's, you know, it's we're not hitting the growth goals or not, you know, something happened and then, you know, I say something that might be a little bit funny or something like that. It kind of relieves the tension. But that's what I try to do, right? I think that's just something I try to do with all meetings. Like I just had a client meeting today. First 12 minutes, we're just kind of talking and laughing and you know, I think that stuff is great to break the ice, especially there's a new client too, right? I think that's super important to break the ice. For me, that's why I find works well. So I always try to not think about it. I always try for, especially for new clients or meeting someone new, I try to break the ice with some sort of humor in some way. And I think that's just super helpful.
Jolie Shapiro22:30.68
Yes, totally. You just cut out there so I can hear the rest of that, the very end. I think the audio quality ends up being better.
Tim Davidson22:33.272
No. Mind saying like actual recording is higher quality.
Jolie Shapiro22:43.906
Mine too. I was just gonna say that's a great point. It's a, man, the last part of your sentence, I had a thought and I, good. We'll move on. This is what Descript is for. Yeah, that's great, love that. I think those are very God points. On to your new fatherhood. So how has balancing your joys and gives me a parenthood with the demands of being new Reverend Leader? you dealt with that?
Tim Davidson23:22.517
Yes, every day, I would say. I think. What it's really done, again, I think we mentioned this earlier, is the... I think it's just, it's just, it's just being. Sorry, you can get rid of all that part. Yeah, to me, there's no good rhythm on how it works. It's more like, because the baby's not predictable, right? The baby can cry or he needs something. So it's not predictable, but I build in, I would say what I've learned to do is build in times in my schedule. having as least amount of meetings as possible so I can cater to the baby and the family and then work my schedule around that. I think that's just. how it works best for me. I know some people have set schedules and all that. I don't think that works for me. I can't physically do that. There's some times I'm doing something at 9 p There's some times I'm doing something at 6 a Sometimes I sleep in and I don't do any of that and then I just work at 10 a whatever that is. Sometimes I'm working the weekends. It just depends on what's going on. But even to one of your questions, I've gotten to the point where I can be more productive. in less time, because you ha you almost have to, and I think that's just made me a better leader because, well, I could prioritize what's best. and actually the thing that's really taught me is, and this is less about the baby, which is the reason I have less time is that it's taught me about delegation, cause it's forced. It's forced me to delegate more. and I think, and saying no more, and I think that's just made me a better leader because I was very bad at delegation actually. Now I think about it, that was really big flaw in my style.
Jolie Shapiro25:43.576
Yeah, that's really great to hear that that taught you that. And yeah, you're right. It's one of earlier questions. Prioritization is really tough for a lot of people. And it sounds like having a baby really set your priorities straight.
Tim Davidson25:55.831
It is. Yeah. I mean, just taught me, it also taught me how much time I'd spent on stupid stuff before.
Jolie Shapiro26:08.906
Mm -hmm. Yeah, like how yeah exactly like how precious what do that we say? Time is in this precious commodity
Tim Davidson26:16.727
Yeah. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro26:20.72
So pivoting a little bit, do you have any daily habits or rituals that help your mental health and your busy schedule, especially being a father?
Tim Davidson26:32.235
Yeah, I mean, this is obviously changed because I can have less of a schedule, but I'm going to morning person for the most part. again, this has changed, but ideally I can get some sort of activity in in the morning, whether it's working out or running or I played the cross all my life. So even just shooting in the backyard or taking the dog out. something where I'm being active. It's always been helpful just to clear my mind and also just get it, get me ready for the day. And then just, you know, I used to meditate more, but you know, once in a while I can do it. I used to meditate a lot more again. But to me, I think the most important part is just the... some sort of activity in the morning, just to clear my head, listen to music, listen to a podcast, maybe it's silence. I think that to me has been very, very important. just, it just sets me up for the day.
Jolie Shapiro27:38.798
That's great. I've mentioned a couple times on this podcast that I now call it sprak, spin crack. I wake up at my boyfriend, I call it sprak. He's like, how was sprak? It was great. So I wake up at like 5 a
Jolie Shapiro27:57.262
when I can wake up and this is nothing compared to I'm sure what you do with a four -month -old. But I wake up at 5 a and I'll go to have my coffee because I can't live without coffee and then I'll do spin at six and it just sets up my whole day for success. I'm like I can do anything because I just got my ass kicked.
Tim Davidson28:16.929
Yeah, no. yeah, I know exactly that feeling. It feels so good. Like if I can go for a hike and you just feel, you feel so good after that.
Jolie Shapiro28:29.686
Yeah, you do. really endorphins our thing. Mental illness, no mental illness, they really stabilize your mood no matter what. Last question before we see where to find you. And I'll put in the show notes and everything, but could you recount a moment of vulnerability in your leadership role and how you manage it both personally and professionally?
Tim Davidson28:33.187
yeah, 100%. This is more on the client side. This happened multiple times. There's been worse situations, I would say. just owning your mistakes, I think has been super, super important for me. And actually, surprisingly well, feedbacked, I've gotten surprisingly well feedback on it. It's weird when they say it, but just owning your mistakes and not trying to like lie about it or work around it or blame someone else. Even if it is someone else's fault, just owning your mistakes has been super, super important for me. One, it saves me a lot of time, not trying to figure out some sort of scheme on how it's not my fault. And then two, just, I think the what people, people trust you more when you do that. And, and as an example, one of the clients I had, I made a big mistake on the spend. We overspent by like two or three times their budget. it was what it was. It doesn't matter. It was my fault in that. So I owned it, told them what was wrong. Here's, you know, and I have a kind of processor for this is like, all right, here's the, here's what happened. Here's the kind of for ad spend, here's the percentage of what was over or under. And then here's kind of what we can do next, like two to three options on right here in my market in nation. but just owning it upfront and as soon as possible, I think is super been very, very. Just very, very relieving now. I want to be very clear. Very, very scary to do in the first few times when you just own it and act like it's all your fault. But once you start to do it, you will feel a lot better and you'll feel like you can make mistakes and move past it because you see how they kind of react to you. There's going be some people that... You they're going to backlash you and that's, you just kind of figure out what's next. But for the most part, at least for the people I work with and in B2B, everyone's pretty understanding.
Jolie Shapiro31:26.942
Yeah, we all have something, right? We're all fighting. We all have lives. Life happens. But I totally agree with that. Sorry, I cut you off there. Totally agree with that with accountability. It's huge. It's just like, if you're able to... It's really hard to say I was wrong or I, for lack of word, fucked up.
Tim Davidson31:30.028
No, okay. clearance. Yeah, that's a one. Mm
Jolie Shapiro31:56.387
But if we do it, I feel like it makes us better humans, even outside of work.
Tim Davidson32:09.595
yeah, yeah, it's just owning it. And I think it definitely just makes you a better human overall, but I keep coming back to this. just, I feel better because I'm not like worrying about it as much as I just own it. And then it's over. If I let it stew, it'll just be stewing in my head for however long. And then, you know, it's just, it's just gonna consume me. But I just feel better just owning it because I just know all right, this was a happened. Here's next up and that's it It's not like you're making up this some sort of story And then hoping it doesn't get caught like that's just ridiculous. I think it's just way better
Jolie Shapiro32:55.054
Exactly, and the lies can just keep piling on top of each other and it makes your anxiety like this big ball of doom. No, totally get that. Well, this was awesome. Thank you so much. Where can we find you?
Tim Davidson33:07.747
best place is LinkedIn. for sure. just type in Tim Davidson. I have a blue background glasses. you got a little beard on there too. or b2brizz .com B 2 B R I Z Z .com. This is the best.
Jolie Shapiro33:24.012
Awesome, and we have matching glasses today. They're like basically the same, which is really funny. Well, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
Tim Davidson33:27.043
That's right. Thank you for having me. This is awesome.