Jolie Shapiro00:01.87
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Revenue Mind, a podcast where revenue leaders talk about all things mental health. I'm Julia, your host, and with us is Mark. Welcome, Mark.
Mark Huber00:12.113
Thanks for having me, I'm excited for this.
Jolie Shapiro00:13.902
Yeah, yeah, thanks so much for hopping on. So before we get started, lots of questions. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Mark Huber00:22.375
All right, well, what do people usually say and then I won't say that. Do people just say like their name, where they worked out, where they're from or like, what do they say?
Jolie Shapiro00:30.082
Yet. that's a good question. Yeah, you could do more like personal. A lot of people are like they talk about like, kind of job title.
Mark Huber00:38.651
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, let's not talk about that stuff because I trust that everybody who's listening can also read my LinkedIn profile and see, well, maybe not that, but they can go to my LinkedIn profile and see all the boring stuff. Not boring, but the usual stuff. yeah, would say, yeah, maybe you use that question as the next jump off for the next episode and then you can.
Jolie Shapiro00:48.022
Yeah, they know who you are. Yes. Like what makes you you? guess is like
Mark Huber01:08.653
Use that move forward. That'd be perfect. All right. What makes me me? I would say the first three things that come to mind are I grew up in a family woodworking business. I don't work there because we are on this podcast together and I'm the fourth generation in the family business and the first generation really that doesn't work there. And the reason why I bring that up is growing up in a very blue collar family. and seeing how my grandfather ran the business, my dad runs the business with his two business partners, his cousins, and just all of the stresses and things and lessons that come with, you know, growing a family business that's been around for 84 years really shapes me as a person. Another thing that really makes me me is I grew up playing competitive hockey and played in college and still play today or try to play at 34. I'm skating in two days. I usually skate once a week. And I think playing competitive hockey at a very young age teaches you a whole lot about yourself, about working with others, the highs and lows of just doing something incredibly competitive, which I think there are quite a few parallels to being an executive and a revenue role at a venture-backed startup. teaches you about time management, which I didn't. really understand at the time when I was growing up and had to do homework in the car and constantly be shuttled around to different tournaments out of state every other weekend. And then I think the third thing is I love laughing. I think it's the best way to get through life and the craziness that comes in, you know, every day and week and month. And if it weren't for for that, I don't know how I would get through it personally. But I love laughing. I don't take myself too serious. And I'm usually joking, but I know when to take things serious at the workplace as well.
Jolie Shapiro03:03.724
Love that. I have a very healthy dose of sarcasm. Well, that's great. Thank you so much. So we'll go on to the questions now. Thank you for being so open about everything this made for really great, really great questions. I'm going to probably redo a lot of my takes, so just bear with me. Thanks. So first question, how has therapy changed your approach as a VP of marketing?
Mark Huber03:07.481
Yes, that would probably be the fourth thing that I would mention too. All good. Yeah. Yeah, so I would say I've been going to therapy for a little over three and half years and I was going weekly for probably the first, I would say year and a half ish going through quite a bit of personal stuff, but then also going through quite a bit of stuff at work as well. And I think for me, it created a space that I could. Just talk through a lot of this stuff that, you know, I was struggling with and overwhelmed with and felt like, you know, I didn't know how I was going to make it through, you know, certain work situations or respond to them. think oftentimes I was celebrating the highs like way too much, and I was really drowning in the lows equally as much. And I think the biggest thing that therapy has helped me do is just look at things from a much more. cool, calm, collected, level-headed perspective, knowing that you can only really focus on what you can control, and there's so much that's out of your control. And I think how you respond to tough situations is really all in your power. So for me, it's just helped me change how I approach conflict in the workplace and how I manage stress as well.
Jolie Shapiro04:50.626
Yeah, that's great. I think therapy for a lot of people is about reframing too. Like you'll get this input and everyone has a different perception of what that input is. But the cognitive behavioral allows you to reframe it to where it makes sense. And I feel like that's definitely big in leadership.
Mark Huber05:02.215
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, there was, you know, mental health has always been a huge thing for me in my life. And I'm sure we'll get to that here in a bit. But I think, you know, there's always been this stigma around mental health. And I think there still is a stigma around mental health. But I think there was a huge stigma around therapy in that, you know, something must be wrong with you if you're going to therapy. And I think, you know, I thought maybe at first, you know, why do I need to go to therapy? Like, I don't have any problems and it's like no, that's not what it's about. Like that's not, you don't go to therapy to just talk about, you know, problems that you may or may not have. Yes, you can talk about problems that you're seeing, but also it's unpacking a lot of those things and really understanding what causes you to think or act or respond to those certain, you know, triggers in different ways. And you have to put in a lot of work and be committed to it to really unpack all of those things. But I've found it to be one of the most fulfilling things that I've ever done personally.
Jolie Shapiro06:12.82
That's awesome. I think therapy has changed a lot of people's lives. There's a big, I feel like it's gotten better, but definitely for men, like a big thing is like men don't cry, like you're not allowed to cry. And I think that there's definitely a movement toward people, all people can have emotions.
Mark Huber06:23.814
Mm-hmm. Yep. Absolutely. And I think, you know, when I'll credit this to my old boss in my last company, Jason, what up? He was pretty open about, know, the certain time of the week that he had therapy. And I thought it was really cool that he was that open about it. And ever since then, I've been very open about hey, Don't ever book a meeting over this time on Tuesdays because that's when I go see my therapist and I don't, you know, try to be weird about it. I'm just like, yep, I have therapy. It's great. And then I usually feel pretty awesome coming out of it and in a good mood.
Jolie Shapiro07:10.828
Yeah, that's great. I was. I am therapy. If I feel like we do this on. Therapy, I feel like you come out of it. Like kind of elated like you like a sense of relief almost like, and even if you have to continue the conversation the next week, it's like you get to. Unpack your brain. I like to your point.
Mark Huber07:40.995
Mm hmm. Yeah, you know, I usually if I think through, you know, some of the recent stuff that I've been working on in therapy, you know, it hasn't been so much work related recently. But, you know, usually I leave feeling like, wow, I'm in a much better spot than I thought that I was or, you know, wow, you're doing a whole lot right now. And you should be proud of yourself of, you know, the actions that you're taking. And, you know, it's a process. It's not something that happens, you know, in a session or, know, a couple sessions, you really have to be committed to it, but I always leave, you know, feeling good. And even if there's, you know, more to be talked about at the next time that I go. I'm not nearly as stressed out about going into it because I know that there is something that I'm already doing well to handle the situation and I could be doing things differently, but it usually comes from a place of me being way too hard on myself.
Jolie Shapiro08:42.104
don't get me started on perfectionism. That we could probably go back and forth for like three hours. Great, so just pivoting a little bit, what's the toughest mental health challenge you faced in revenue leadership?
Mark Huber08:43.814
Heh. Yeah, yeah. working in leadership, I would say, what's the best way to say this just at my last company, I think dealing with a really toxic workplace culture from the top down and, just some of the tactics that, you know, a particular leader would use and resort to. would just leave me thinking, you know, it was gaslighting at the end of the day and it created a really, really horrible working environment. And it really forced me to start to question myself and my abilities and my confidence and who I was as a person, because every single thing that I was doing, no matter how I tried to change my own behavior, you know, was not met with that same desire to change. And that took up Probably my first, I would say like, man, what was that? Probably like almost two years worth of therapy. We talked about that quite a bit. you know, it helped me learn more about myself and control more of, you know, how I react or don't react and play into, you know, certain behaviors in the workplace. And it was awesome. to come out on the other side of that and most importantly land in a new place like I am at UserEvidence where I don't have to worry about that.
Jolie Shapiro10:26.274
Yeah, toxic work environments or I had this boss. I was 24, 25 maybe. And I remember coming back from a lunch break and she emailed me asking me where I was. Yeah, was bad. And I couldn't say no problem or hi both. was, it's just that, that kind of, it just makes you think like,
Mark Huber10:44.815
man. Yep.
Jolie Shapiro10:55.392
Is it me? What am I doing? And it's the gaslighting, like it starts to make you think like, what did, what am I doing wrong? When really it's not you, it's the environment.
Mark Huber10:56.635
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you cut this part out, the CEO of the last company was, he was in the Israeli special forces for I think a four year period as a like special teams hostage negotiator, negotiator. And he would basically use tactics that he picked up, you know, in that role, when talking down to, you know, people at his company and it was pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro11:35.706
my god. Yeah, I won't, I'll cut that out. Because everyone knows where you worked. Yeah, let's cut that out. Well, thank you so much for that context. Next question is a little sensitive, but thought I'd ask it. So how did losing a friend to suicide shape your view on leadership and mental health?
Mark Huber11:48.166
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I would say that's a really good question that no one has ever asked me before. So I'd say suicide, maybe I'll just talk about suicide a little bit in general. I lost one of my best friends in high school, right, as we were going to college. We were a few weeks away. We were all going to separate schools and it was an incredibly traumatic and I would say very pivotal moment. at a very, you know, pivotal time in our lives. And it really just changed our worlds. And he's somebody that I still think about and, you know, something that no one should really ever have to go through. And then unfortunately, I almost had to go through it again, probably. That would have been five-ish years later when my younger sister, thankfully, was unsuccessful in trying to take her own life and having two major moments that suicide contributed to. It's just always been something that I've been a big believer in, and just mental health and mental health awareness. think one of the things that we tried to do the first probably four or five years after my friend had passed away was we used some of the money that was donated. in his passing to bring a mental health speaker to high school, the high school that we went to, and they would have that speaker come in. I think the senior class, like the spring of their senior year, kind of right as they were about to graduate and go through a very transformative period in time in their lives. And we got really good feedback on that. And I thought it was something that was, if the speaker saved one life in that group of people who were attending, like it paid for itself 10 times over. So I thought that was really awesome. think the. The biggest thing that it's probably taught me to bring it back to your original question is this. You would be surprised how many people are willing to listen, both in your personal life and in your work life. Whenever you are really feeling down about a particular situation or just how things are going and they won't ever know How you feel unless you speak up and say something so I think you know I'm a very open book and have been ever since My friend passed and you know as I've grown up in my working career And I think it's something that I make sure that I always speak up whenever I can, if something like really is eating away at me and it's impacting my mental health. And then it's a two way street. Like I make sure that my, my door is open, even though we work on zoom and virtually that anyone on my team has, you know, the, the ability to talk to me about anything that might be happening at work or in their personal lives, if they want to talk through that. So speak up. think that's the biggest thing because you never really know what people are dealing with.
Jolie Shapiro15:02.424
Definitely, first of all, I'm so sorry for your loss and I'm happy your sister is still here with us.
Mark Huber15:08.431
Yeah, it was a doubt to listen to this, but if she does, it was one of those moments where I think we up until that point, you know, we're three years apart and we kind of had your typical, you know, brother sister relationship for quite some time where, know, I'm annoying her and, you know, probably giving her way too hard of a time. And, know, you didn't really think that the two of us liked each other. And it's kind of unfortunate that, you know, maybe it took that. particular moment for us to really turn into best friends. But I'd say she's one of my best friends in my entire life. And it was a huge turning point for us in our relationship. And I'd say our entire family's relationship with her as well.
Jolie Shapiro15:52.258
Yeah, that's, that's amazing. think those pivotal life moments really bring people together. My, my dad, she's Parkinson's. And it's really, we were, we were dysfunctional and close before, but not dysfunctional, but you know, I'll cut that out. But we were, we were all really close before, but it made us even closer.
Mark Huber16:01.435
Yep. Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro16:23.309
where we just kind of rally around my dad and we're all there for each other.
Mark Huber16:30.279
Mm hmm. Yeah, it sounds like it's very similar in a lot of ways. And it's unfortunate that it takes, you know, a wake up call, in my case, or some unfortunate news, and a situation that you had to deal with, with your family. But it's really cool that people respond so well to situations like that and really rally together and with that particular person.
Jolie Shapiro16:53.272
Yeah, definitely. So pivoting to neurodivergency, or as they like to say, neuro-spiciness. Can you share a moment where ADHD led to a breakthrough?
Mark Huber17:07.503
Yeah, that's a good one. I would say, let's see if this is a good answer. This is the first thing that comes to mind. I was embarrassed that I had ADHD for quite some time. I thought it had to be something that I didn't talk about, maybe that there was a stigma around it. I thought that it was a negative thing about me, and it was something that I hid in the workplace for quite some time. And I think the breakthrough moment was probably... I would say sometime in the last four to five years, because that's when I started to change just my stance on how I view my own ADHD in the workplace, I just started to let people know about it. And I let people know about the good things, because I really do think it is a superpower for me at the end of the day, and it's something that makes me me. And when I'm truly... focused and in the zone, how I am, how I can come across, how it might appear to others. And then when I, you know, maybe am not as focused or, you know, not in the best, you know, mental state with regard to my ADHD, this is how I show up as well. And these are some of the negative things that could be interpreted based on my body language, how I communicate, how these other things, you know, play out in the workplace. And I think two things stood out to me once I started to, to change, like how I viewed ADHD and my own ADHD. People were so accepting of it. And I think very understanding. And I think it also just helped me work better as a teammate when I'm more open about how I'm wired and how I work and think and my quirks and what my, superpower is. So I think that was probably the biggest, kind of turning point for me, with my ADHD.
Jolie Shapiro19:06.638
We'll keep that. My dog is currently barking, one sec. She's looking like, but I want to bark. She's part of German Shepherd, so she's on watch. Back to the podcast. Yeah, Adiex, she's a total super power. What kind of super powers do you feel like you have with ADHD?
Mark Huber19:21.572
You man. Yeah, I would say a couple things come to mind. think I'm just naturally a very curious person. I think that's how I'm wired. But I think once I find something that really piques my curiosity that I don't know about, which is most things in the marketing world, give me a day or a week and I'm going to come back super. informed about whatever it may be. And that comes up all the time, especially in an early stage startup and especially as a first time executive. So I think that curiosity and that focus that ADHD kind of brings to me is amazing. And I think not something that everyone has.
Jolie Shapiro20:32.62
Yeah, definitely. think AHG people's brains operate in a very special way. You can like hyper focus one second and you can listen to a conversation but also multitask. It's awesome. Yeah.
Mark Huber20:48.295
I still don't know if the multitasking is a good thing, but I feel like I am good at it.
Jolie Shapiro20:54.262
Yeah, no same. I'm a little bit too good at it. I'll hear my like improve. don't do that here like in client calls or anything. But in previous jobs, I'll like be working because there's so much work. And I'll hear my name like, yeah, and then chime in.
Mark Huber21:11.055
Yeah, I think the flip side to it is I think prioritization can be an issue in getting overwhelmed at times just with, you know, how much is on my plate or my team's plate and, you know, struggling a bit to prioritize. But I think knowing that that feeling, at least for me, is oftentimes driven by my ADHD. Like the first kind of step is awareness. So at least I'm more aware of it now. And I kind of recognize when I start to feel a little overwhelmed with that in particular. So it has its pros and definitely its weaknesses. But I'm aware of what those weaknesses are. And I'm open about those weaknesses with my team.
Jolie Shapiro21:55.918
Yeah that's awesome I'm cutting out my part because I don't want to admit that I multitask on calls. So yeah no. Great so staying along the lines on mental health what's the biggest misconception about mental health in your opinion in the workplace?
Mark Huber22:18.855
mental health in the workplace. I don't know if this still holds true, but this is something that I feel like used to be true, and maybe it's starting to change for the better. It still felt like something that for the longest time, it wasn't something that you should be talking about in the workplace. And I think there are so many people, myself included, who think that... you know, their career and what they do for work and their self worth is really wrapped up in all of that, like together. And I think it can be a great thing for some people and, you know, some people that doesn't appeal to them at all. But for myself, you know, it is a great thing to be open about your mental health in the workplace and, you know, having space to talk about that and knowing when and where to talk about it. But I think the more, you know, perfect example, there's been some, some times where I have some personal stuff that I'm going through outside of work. And what I'll do is, you know, I'll let my boss know, hey, such and such is going on. And my head is just not in it right now. And I'm going to go, you know, for a walk or a run or go do something. And it will help me come back better the next day, the next week, and remain more level headed and and more just focused versus, hey, this stuff is going on. My head's not in it. I can sit in front of my computer for the next couple hours and pretend to do work, but it's not going to be good work and it's not going to be productive. I think knowing that it's more OK to do that in the workplace now makes me really happy.
Jolie Shapiro24:00.29
That's great. Speaking of ADHD, I forgot to turn my light on. So one second. There we go. Much better. I'll give you the magic clips and maybe you can pick one that has lighting. Because I was in the dark for most of this. Okay, let's see. Thinking my response.
Mark Huber24:17.201
Yeah
Jolie Shapiro24:34.348
Yeah, I think it's something that's starting to be broached. Like with ERGs and a lot of companies will offer discounts to tell them on us your therapy or nutrition, but it's still very much, you know, come out and say, hi, I'm X and I have ADHD, depression, anxiety. I'm a DSM five dream. Please hire me. That's not, I think coming out, like it's one thing to say, I need a break to reset. And it's another thing to be like, hey, I have XYZ mental illness. I don't think we're there yet.
Mark Huber25:20.741
Yeah, I don't think that we are. think I hope that we get there at some point because I think, you know, from where we are right now in 2024 to where we were, you know, four years ago to 10 years ago, I think it's come a long way. So I'm not ruling out that in the next five years, we don't get to that point. I would almost be excited if we get to that point.
Jolie Shapiro25:42.094
For sure, that actually leads me to my next question. How do you balance transparency about your mental health with the demands of leadership?
Mark Huber25:51.941
Yeah, think, how would I say that? think there are, you know, there's a line, I think for me of, you know, how many details, you know, do you need to share about whatever you're going through, especially if it's outside of work. And it's a line that I think I am aware of. I don't want to dump out, you know, everything that's going on in my personal life onto someone else in the workplace. But I think, you know, I just did this recently with my team. shared something that, you know, I'm having to work through outside of work and, you know, just said, Hey, I want to let you all know that if I seem a little out of it or, you know, I'm a little slow to respond or you see some other things from me, just know that that does not mean, you know, this, this, and this it's just because, you know, I'm dealing with this outside of work and it's taking up a little bit more of my, my head space. And, you know, it was the first time really that I shared that with, my team when this, you know, similar situations have come up in the past. I've, I've shared it with maybe my boss and my boss only, but this is the first time that I'm running the marketing show. And I felt like I owed it to them. And I thought it was really cool because there was something that, you know, someone else on the team, unfortunately had to deal with very quickly after I had shared that with the team. And they said that, you know, my openness and my transparency. and my professionalism about it all, encourage them to, you know, share with me what they were dealing with. and they felt comfortable and safe, to do so. And, you know, it was very unfortunate what they had to go through, and the loss that they endured. But, I thought it was really, really powerful that, know, within a matter of, I think it was like a week or two weeks that someone, you know, was brave enough to speak up and say something. And, you know, we chipped in for that person while they were out. and they really appreciated it.
Jolie Shapiro27:52.28
That's amazing. that actually reminded me of something. It's really hard, it's really hard to ask for help when you're going through something really tough. And I actually made this mistake at a company and my uncle had just passed away a couple years ago and my dad was getting a brain surgery like the same week. or the same month and I didn't ask my team for help. I was just like, I can function. I can do this. Turns out I could, thank you. No, it's a couple years ago. Turns out I couldn't. I couldn't function doing, being there for my family and then also doing a very high demanding job.
Mark Huber28:30.526
Mm I'm so sorry.
Jolie Shapiro28:52.593
So I think that's really great that you opened up to your team. How was the sentiment when you opened up?
Mark Huber29:01.211
Yeah, I think it's probably more a reflection of the caliber of people that I've hired on my team because I felt comfortable enough and safe enough that they were going to respond just like they did. And that's absolutely what happened and very supportive, very understanding, very human, I think is probably the best way to put it. And it was great. I think I was a little nervous just because I'd never done anything like that before. And within a matter of, I don't know, probably 20 seconds into it and a couple, you know, we probably talked for four or five minutes about it. All of the concerns, you know, maybe that I had going in were no more. And any anxiety that I felt, you know, it was kind of off the table.
Jolie Shapiro29:50.03
Yeah, that's awesome. And that really shows the culture that you built and the people that you hired. A lot of times there are a reflection of who you are. So I think that speaks very highly of you. Yeah, of course. On to more, how do I put this, I'm rephrase this. So many retakes. Thank God for Descript. Holy shit.
Mark Huber30:04.058
I appreciate that. Yeah. All good.
Jolie Shapiro30:19.53
I love Descript. It's like my happy place. So pivoting a little bit, what's one mental health lesson you wish you learned sooner?
Mark Huber30:31.831
One mental health lesson that I wish I knew sooner. I would say just don't wait for something bad or catastrophic to happen to ask someone if they're all right. If you have a hunch that somebody might be going through something and. You know, can pick up on it based on your spidey sense or, know, any sort of body language or behavior or whatever it may be. Just speak up sooner. I think it goes such a long way and it's so much better to get in front of what usually is, you know, a horrible and traumatic situation if you wait too long. So just speak up, trust your gut and, you know, offer up support to people who you feel like might need it. And, you know, the worst that can happen is. they say, no, no, no, I'm good. And you can ask a few more questions and trust that they're good. But I would rather have that happen than wait too long to speak up and ask somebody how they feel and have to deal with the consequences.
Jolie Shapiro31:36.078
Yep, yep, totally. I was nodding. I was like a bobblehead with that one. Yeah, had, I had a, it's interesting. I had a friend who I just thought that's how she was. She was kind of flaky and just kind of spacey and, and I, I made the mistake of not checking in on her like, Hey, are you okay? Cause I, I'd never seen how she, I didn't know how she was before.
Mark Huber32:04.71
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro32:06.016
and I get a call that she's in rehab. So it's to your point, it's really good to check in. actually I'll send I have I have some OCD tendency. So I have a list of all my friends in a notes app with hashtag all you need is love. And about once a month, I'll go into texting spree. and say, hey, just checking in with a heart. Yeah. And that's because, thank you. And that's because that girl taught me, my friend taught me, you never know if someone's going through something. Like I had a friend that said, hey, like after the election, not to get into politics, but she said, I have to go to up north. So just, you know, I think that's really important. That's really great.
Mark Huber32:37.881
I love that. That's awesome. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Jolie Shapiro33:05.162
So back onto revenue, we're going all over the place. What's the hardest part of detaching from outcomes in a high stakes role?
Mark Huber33:17.127
that is a good one. I think you're on the hook for the outcomes, like figuratively and literally at times. So I think for me, it is decoupling outcomes from self-worth and really your... ability to control what you can control. And I think for me, I really try to focus on effort at the end of the day. And if I can truly look myself in the mirror and say that, you know, I'm doing everything that I possibly can to impact a particular outcome. And if it's not going my way, you know, when it's all said and done at the end of the quarter or you know, whatever the time period is, it's okay. Like that's not, you know, a reflection of you as a person. It's not reflection of, you know, what people in your personal life may think of you. And usually I would say almost all the time, it's not a reflection of how people think of you in the workplace too. So there are times where if you miss a number, you know, it could be, you know, whatever you're gold on from a, you know, pipeline perspective or revenue perspective. I think it's time or it's important to take time to pause and reflect a little bit and look back and see if I could have done things differently, what would I have done differently and almost journal a little bit. I'm not a journaler, but I think all the time I can't shut my little marketing brain off. And as long as you are truly putting in the effort and taking time to reflect. Over time you will start to hit more of those numbers and you know ultimately get to where you want to be
Jolie Shapiro35:12.59
Yeah, it's a, I have this, I don't know if I should admit this, so let's try it and then I'll see if I want to cut it out. I have this notion note with a world, hashtag world domination. So whenever I have a thought about how I to rule the world, I write it down there, but it could, it it. has to do with anything. It's like different categories and but also a really a really good way if you're not a journal or is is voice notes.
Mark Huber35:47.163
Yep. I'm a big boys not guy.
Jolie Shapiro35:50.05
yeah? What do use?
Mark Huber35:52.616
I use whatever the default Apple app is on my phone.
Jolie Shapiro35:59.51
Nice. Awesome. All right. Let's see. So a couple more questions. How can we make therapy less taboo among revenue leaders? And I know you touched on a little bit before, but we'll have to hear your official take.
Mark Huber36:14.479
Yeah, I think just talking about it more and talking about the benefits and the positive impact that it has on people when you commit to it because it is a process. It's not a one and done thing or a couple time and done thing. And I think just being more open about it that you do go to therapy and you. prioritize it every week and it's not something that you want to schedule over and it's a priority for you and you know, it's something that you make the time for and I think the more that we do that and the more that more revenue leaders do that I think my hope is the more accepted it becomes and we remove the stigma that you know seems to still be around it in 2024.
Jolie Shapiro36:59.202
Yeah, I that. I think if it comes from the top, it trickles down. Because it's like, Mark is doing it. Let me block off DNS or therapy or whatever on your calendar. And people are like, all right, won't put that over it. Love that. Last question. What's missing in the B2B conversation about mental health?
Mark Huber37:06.854
Mm-hmm. Yep. I think, I mean, it's kind of similar to, you know, parts of my last answer is I think people are still scared to bring it up in conversation because they're worried about what others might think of them or, you know, it's a sign of weakness or a sign of something's wrong. And, you know, I can count a few people on my hand that I know personally who are pretty open about it. But I think the more that they're willing to, put themselves out there and start the conversation and make sure that it remains a conversation. I think the better off everyone's going to be. think working at any sort of venture-backed software or not, is a crazy, crazy work environment. And I think... the sooner that people realize that one of the best ways to get by in a crazy work environment like that is to go to therapy and talk about a lot of the things that you might be struggling with in the workplace and outside of the workplace. And it hopefully just leads to better teams, better cultures, better environments, and just a better situation that people want to work in.
Jolie Shapiro38:39.7
Love that. Thank you for expanding. So we've wrapped up. Where can we find you? I'll put in the show notes, but we'd love to hear from you.
Mark Huber38:47.495
Yeah, LinkedIn is probably the easiest place. I've spent a fair amount of time on there, but yeah, shoot me a DM. I'm happy to share a little bit more about my mental health journey and going to therapy and whatnot. And I'd say I'm one of the biggest proponents of it around. And it's definitely changed who I am for the better. I probably wouldn't have thought that that would have been the case, know, four and a half years ago when I started going, but it's totally been worth it.
Jolie Shapiro39:15.818
Awesome. This is great. Thank you so much, Mark.
Mark Huber39:18.427
Thank you for having me.