Jolie Shapiro00:01.65
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Revenue Mind, a podcast where revenue leaders talk about all things mental health. I'm Julie, your host and with us is David. Welcome David.
David Walsh (Limelight)00:11.022
Thanks, Charlie. Excited to be here.
Jolie Shapiro00:12.966
Yeah, for sure. So before we dive in, what makes you, you?
David Walsh (Limelight)00:18.286
You're starting with the tough questions again. I mean, I'm me, me. So I live in Los Angeles from Ireland, but I've lived in the US for 10 years now. So five years in New York, five years in LA. I have a son who's three years of age and my wife is also Irish. And, you know, what makes me me, I think I'm like that crazy mix of exciting. I think of myself as a salesperson, a marketing person, but then I get to run early stage startup companies. And so I have that, I don't know, urine or, or, or, or needs to go and build stuff. And so I have the privilege to, to launch and build software for the last 10 years. And, you know, I think what makes me me is that I'm very grounded with a lot of structure, would say outside of work, which allows me to be, a little bit, you know, risk on in work. so hopefully that answers your question, what makes me me. It's quite a complex, you know, question to ask because there's so many aspects to my personality. I'm happy to tell you a bit more about it.
Jolie Shapiro01:32.656
Yeah, sure. One sec. I'm going to shut his door because he's loud. You can't hear anything? Okay. I don't trust it. One sec.
David Walsh (Limelight)01:37.816
That's okay. I can't hear anything, but that's no problem. No. Go for it.
Jolie Shapiro02:09.842
Much better. Okay, yeah, so was like, I don't know how to edit that out, so like extra background noise. Okay, Noah, I love the answer to your question, or your question, Jesus, now I have to redo it. I love the answer to the question. think everyone has, like you said, different aspects to the personality, but I think you summed it up really nicely. Yeah, of course. So now onto the questions.
David Walsh (Limelight)02:15.822
You Thank you.
Jolie Shapiro02:40.186
Looking back on burning out while growing your last company, what advice would you give yourself about managing stress?
David Walsh (Limelight)02:48.314
that's a good one. I think with everything, it ebbs and flows, meaning when you're having moments that you're super, super stressed and it can kind of compound, like what's the old phrase when it, you everything comes in threes. So when everything goes wrong, it gets really intense. think recognizing that and being aware of how the natural human instinct is to compartmentalize and compress. and then maybe just like move on and forget about it. And if you do that too often, you have to be, you just have to get time to disconnect and be off off the grid. looking back, I think maybe being a bit more aware and a bit more give yourself a bit more grace than I did because I was working so hard all the time and I was always on and I loved what I did, which Jolie, I think that's the key. It's like Although I was stressed and, you know, got, you know, burnt out to a certain degree, I was also loving my work and I was so invested in my work. And that kind of merges your life and your work together into one and your personality and your, makeup becomes your work. And that's just kind of dangerous from time to time. You know, you need to be able to be yourself and be a human and not be Dave. I'm in work. I'm a founder. It's like, no, I'm just Dave. I'm a normal human being. I'm a person. So being able to disconnect and get time by yourself to be, you know, be yourself and be a normal person is super important. Hopefully that answers your question.
Jolie Shapiro04:24.434
Yeah, it does. I think the move to remote work has really blended the two together because and I actually the very first episode when I talked to Chris Walker, we talked about this. So it's like you wake up, you're at your computer, you go to sleep, wake up, your computer is still there. There's no there's no differentiation between between your home life and your work life. So it can it can be tough.
David Walsh (Limelight)04:53.73
Yeah, definitely.
Jolie Shapiro04:58.202
Awesome. So first of all, I'm sorry you got fired. I'm going to preface the question with that. It is really hard. It's never fun. But I think there's a good lesson in here. So getting fired from Indeed, you mentioned was your turning point. How did it shape your approach to leadership?
David Walsh (Limelight)05:18.03
Mmm. Yeah, well, you know, this might be controversial, but I honestly think that for the most part, most individuals, not every person, but like I personally had an experience where, yes, it was a bad experience to get fired, but I think it should happen to everyone at least once in their career. I was fortunate that it happened to me earlier on in my career. So I didn't have as much responsibilities. didn't have a mortgage, a family, a kid, you know, so I was able to bounce back very quickly. But what I taught me was that no job is secure. You're only as important to a company as the value that you bring to that company on a consistent basis. And for the most part, corporations in America can make decisions that are business decisions that, yes, they like you as a person and a human being, but they're making a business decision because things change. so a lot of the time, those things are out of your control. It's just the market conditions or... changes in the business model or unfortunate circumstances within a startup company. So I've actually been fired twice, know, once from a big tech company and once from a small tech company. And then, you know, you don't know this, but I also had to let go of 40 % of my staff in my last company in one day. So I had to meet with 25 people back to back at 15 minute meetings and let every one of them go. And some of them I knew for four years and kind of had grown up with them. So I have the experience on both receiving and twice to then having to do it myself at my own company. And through that experience, I knew what I felt like. And so I tried to deliver the best possible message, but letting people go is incredibly challenging and difficult. so I'm, I suppose, fortunate, blessed and cursed to have those experiences at such a young age on both sides. But to be honest, I wouldn't change it for the world. And I think... getting let go at the early stages of my career was actually the thing that propelled me to go on and do better and bigger things.
Jolie Shapiro07:28.05
That's amazing. And how did you approach letting people go? I'm always curious about this because I've always been on the end of getting let go, but I've never been the leader having to tell 25 people that they no longer have an income. So I love to hear your perspective.
David Walsh (Limelight)07:46.702
Yeah, I just dropped a bomb on you with that one. You know, there's no easy way to let people go, no matter what you do. You're impacting people's lives and their livelihood. so I think it's very important to be transparent as much as possible, be truthful and be direct in your communication. think it's, you know, you have to be very clean with how you communicate and how you deliver a message and very deliver the message thoughtfully in the right way, in the right format. And also just like between you and me, like do the right thing. You know, you're letting people go, don't screw them on the way out, you know, so try give as generous a package as possible. Try help them outside of, you know, when they're transitioned out of the business to help them in their career, help them in their new opportunities. But there's no easy way to do it. And everyone reacts to it differently. You go into a thinking, I, you know, I know these people, I know them inside and out. I've worked with them for three or four years. You expect a reaction, you know, to, the news, either positively, you know, or, you know, accepting it or a very negative and reactive reaction. And, and often what you think you're going to get from one person isn't actually, you know, what, what shakes out. So very difficult to do, but kind of the keys are speak candidly directly. deliver the message thoughtfully, do whatever you can to help them in that period in time. And then stay connected with them for the most part, the ones that you think you should, give them the space, but stay connected with them because you never know what could happen.
Jolie Shapiro09:35.29
Yeah, I that. something you said before made me think of even honestly, not just the big corporations of the world, but really any business, we are numbers. And it is going to be an impersonal decision. So I feel like the and feel free to chime in. I feel like the new movement is to have your own thing because you are protecting yourself from corporate America essentially. feel like there's a huge movement toward that. are your thoughts on that?
David Walsh (Limelight)10:09.582
Yeah, I completely agree. mean, there's one way to be disposable and it's to be, you know, the owner of the business. Then it's very difficult to be disposed. Now I will tell you that sometimes you have to remove yourself from your own business, which is also difficult to do. Also something I did in my last company. So It's this weird, I have this weird belief that corporations are incredibly complex in, but also incredibly powerful. If done the right way, you get a group of people together to work together on a certain mission and to accomplish something. And, you know, my wife works for Netflix where they have a very aggressive policy around people where it's like, we're not a family, we're a team. You know, we're only as good as the team and how you perform. And if somebody's not performing on the team, you're letting the rest of the team down. Whereas somebody's not performing in a family, you feel compelled to help them and support them even if they're not pulling their weight. And so there's this weird dynamic in organizations that are for-profit organizations where you do your best work when you're surrounded by great people. But at the same time, you you need to be aware of people who are maybe potentially underperforming and, you know, act upon that in the right way. help them, support them, but be candid and transparent with them about what your expectations are and what the reality is of what they're delivering. corporations in America are ruthless. I think knowing that and going in eyes wide open is very important and helpful. You can't be resentful to your employer because they're a corporation and they're putting food on the table, but you can be aware that you need to deliver value to get paid.
Jolie Shapiro11:56.978
Yeah, for sure. You made me think of something and I can't remember. This is why I have to script. What was it? It was really good. What you said? Remember, protect ourselves. Nope. Okay. I'll think of it later. Yeah. So speaking of all of that pressure, you are currently at a seed sage company.
David Walsh (Limelight)12:25.774
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro12:26.514
pretty intense. How do you know when to push and when to step back?
David Walsh (Limelight)12:33.816
you know, I'm still learning that one. The truth is, that I love what I do. Give me one sec. Hello? Hello? Somebody's at the door. So your question is, how do you know when to step back as a seed state company? I'm all in all the time, you know, and it's a super power in the fact that I don't actually think work is work. I wake up at seven in the morning and most people say, go outside, look at sun, go for a walk, relax. Like I look at my email and it's not healthy. It's just not. But I know that it's what I need to do in this short period of time to get this company off the ground. So when I wake up at seven in the morning, I'm looking at my email and I'm responding to things immediately. Sometimes I'm looking after my three year old son at six in the morning and I'm doing the same thing. And sometimes I feel guilty about it, but that the other times I'm like, I'm moving business along and I'm responding back to things and I'm online and I'm generate value for the business and grow the company. If I don't do it, nobody's going to do it. So I have to set the pace. If I'm going to sleep at night, 10, 11 PM, I'm doing the same thing. So it's not for everyone, right? But until you've built something yourself and you're fully responsible for growing a company, you can't know what it feels like for your work to not actually be work to be your baby. It's your, it's your creativity. Like you're, you're bringing yourself to work. You're solving problems every day, but you're doing it for yourself. You're not doing it for anyone else. And I mentor a lot of entrepreneurs or people come to me with certain ideas that they want to jump into entrepreneurship. And I'm like, are you sure you want to do this? Cause like, It's all encompassing. You can't go half in. You can't dip your toe in and then stop, right? You are all in all the time. And if you're not, you're going to fail. It's truth. Long-term. You might get lucky, but for the most part, you're going to fail. So you have to love what you're doing and you have to be very deliberate about what you're trying to build and what you're trying to accomplish. then, you know, to know when to step back, I think there'll be days that are hard. There'll be weeks that are hard. There'll be months that are hard. And then there'll be weeks that are incredible. And there'll be days that you just like, you're on a high and that roller coaster of emotion of like highs to lows isn't actually sequentially like every week or every month. It's actually every hour, meaning I'll be like extremely excited about closing this new business deal with this $7 billion well-known brand. And then two minutes later, I'll be like, no, there's fraud on this account and we need to like, solve this issue and there's these fires going on. And if we don't do it, like the whole company is going to fail. And so that re-yo-yo of motion. have to be, you have to understand how to come in and be level set and not overreact to the highs and not overreact to the lows. And I've definitely done that in the past, you know, in previous companies. And now I feel a little bit more mature where I'm able to feel a bit more balanced and a bit more longer, longer term thinking than, you know, the short reactiveness. But in answer to your question, you know, I'm always on and I feel like it's a superpower, but I also am aware that I'm very intense and it's just part of my personality.
Jolie Shapiro15:54.512
No, I love that because it's funny. Some people are always on because they have to be, and some people are always on because they want to be. actually, I'm starting something. It's in the works at the moment, and I'm doing it on top of an agency. And it's a challenge. But I get it. It's something that... I don't feel like it's work. feel like if it takes off, could really make a difference in this world. So it's just like that. I completely understand that feeling of like, this is my baby. I will wake up at seven, work for two hours and then play with my kid. Well, I don't have kids, I have puppies. Play with my kid, go throughout the day. Work till midnight. That mentality is like when you're so passionate about something, it just feels like you would do anything to have it succeed.
David Walsh (Limelight)17:02.614
Yeah, I agree with you. And then sometimes I just want to relax, you know, and it's the weekend and I'm like, can you just not think, you know, just like relax. And even in the moments of like, the times that I'm sitting beside a beach or, you know, I'm sitting down and relaxing, I'm usually trying to problem solve my head around something that I've just thought that I need to problem solve on. And so it's a double edged sword, you know. Do I envy sometimes the idea of being able to just really sit down and relax and take a few hours to just focus on myself or read a book? Sure. But I do that and then I get bored and then I get upset and then I get frustrated and I'd rather just be problem solving in my head. So it's a sickness, but it's also helpful to have that mindset when you're building companies.
Jolie Shapiro17:56.476
Yeah, for sure. I think so what I've read and seen and observed, whatever, you get to a point, and I'm hoping I get to this point too, where it runs itself. Like in the beginning, you're all in and it's hours and hours and hours of nights and weekends and... of work basically 24 seven, but you get to a point and then it's there's like this quote. It's like HubSpot has these four day work weeks now, but they've been working for 20 years to have that. So it's we all we all think about, this is yeah, I'm just gonna work my ass off and you know, I think about that comment. Say that hold on. Thank God for this freaking.
David Walsh (Limelight)18:29.998
Right.
Jolie Shapiro18:48.326
You should have seen my last podcast. had to like re-record a hundred times. My dog was barking. It was, it was crazy. you were talking about, you're talking about, the horc-a-holic. Like, I think, I think it's one thing to be like a self-proclaimed workaholic. I, I definitely am. but I think it is, it also is important to find that balance.
David Walsh (Limelight)18:53.582
That's okay.
Jolie Shapiro19:16.977
once you have everything up and running. Now you're always going to be in control. You're always going to have have the vision and the strategy and everything but something I'm trying to do actually personally is find that balance because I have none. I'm a lot like you.
David Walsh (Limelight)19:33.614
To react to what you're saying, I think the best scenarios of managing your and being able to disconnect at an early stage is hiring exceptional people that you trust around you to execute the things that and take the initiative before even you do to put in the work and you trust them to deliver without needing to look over their shoulder. So I always strike the right balance or try find the right balance of like, okay, I can be super intense and very on and very focused for a few hours. And then there's times where I see something pop up and I'll just assume that my other team member, because I've spoken to them is going to execute on that and not get worried about it. So the ability to scale and grow, you know, is, is there's only one way to do that. And it's to hire really great people that you trust around you. So I'm at the stage right now, just to be transparent where I've got four employees. So, and I'm the one in charge of sales, marketing, finance operations, know, hiring, accounting, et cetera. You know, so I'm in charge of every department other than product and marketing or product and engineering. Um, when I hire people to take over some of those responsibilities, I'll definitely be able to take a bit more of a break or a bit more time off here and there. Um, so I, I hear, I hear what you're saying. the only issue. The only maybe caveat to that is when you get over a team of 20 people, let's say my last company, I got up to about 75 people. When you get over 20 people, people become the issue. People management becomes the issue. Like managing personalities and how do they work together and like who's responsible for what and you know, how do you get high output from this team of people who know what to do and know where they fit within the organization. You spend all of your time instead of problem solving on a specific thing and doing it yourself in organizational design and structure. And how do I get the best out of my team and communicate with my team? there is a power to that if you do it the right way, but it can go wrong very quickly and inefficiencies can be built in. And so that's why I love early stage startups with small teams much more than I like bigger teams because you can move quicker. clearer lines of communication, less bureaucracy. Yeah, so that's why I'm where I am, I suppose.
Jolie Shapiro22:01.426
Yeah, that's great. At the end of the day, it's all about trust, right? You gotta trust the people that you gotta trust that they're going to care just as much as you do. And if, they're gonna put forth the effort, does it, does it ever get lonely at the top?
David Walsh (Limelight)22:20.076
Hmm. You know, you say the top as if it's like, always think of it. I never really think of it as like a hierarchical, meaning I like the job of CEO and founder. I like being the boss and being responsible for everything. but I don't look at myself in that lens all of the time. I look at myself as somebody who's going to get in and problem solve with any team member on any little task, no big, doesn't matter how big or small it is. But to answer your question directly is get lonely. Of course it does. Entrepreneurship is the most lonely job. People put it on a pedestal and say, yeah, this is going to be all me playing golf and living on the beach and making money and having fun. Like it is the complete opposite. Of course I get to play golf and I can have my own freedom and I can, you know, decide my own calendar and schedule and I can take time off if I want to. But when you've got an enormous amount of work to do, you don't even get the time to take the time off. Is it lonely? Yeah, sure. I think it is because you're essentially responsible for everything, start to finish. And there's great power and excitement in that. And that's what gets me up and motivated is that I'm fully responsible for the business, but it's also can be overwhelming and stressful and lonely because you've no one else to talk to to relate to. So when I speak to my friends outside of work, you friends that I've known for long time, it's hard to explain what you do in work and how you You don't have as much in common because they don't know what it's like to found and run a startup software company and grow it. so finding people who are, have similar experiences or interests is very helpful. And I've tried to invest more into that. I failed the monos with you. So I'm still that lonely CEO and founder who's just building software in his spare bedroom and having fun.
Jolie Shapiro24:14.32
You're like, was it Microsoft or Apple in the garage? Exactly. So you mentioned a little bit about your friends. So how, with this concept of loneliness, how do you stay connected and find purpose?
David Walsh (Limelight)24:19.852
Yeah, yeah, my home studio, but it looks like a garage. Yeah, it's a good question. I suppose like with friends, I have a very clear line of communication. Like I don't use my WhatsApp for work ever. And I've had people try WhatsApp me or try text me about work. And I'll be like, email me. Like do not pollute my only channel that is not commercially driven, which is my WhatsApp and my text message, or sometimes even my phone when people call me. So I suppose that's like number one, I have very clear channels, right? WhatsApp is for friends, family and communication of that sorts. I think I have friends that I have in common that I would speak to a lot about like ongoing sports, for example, like I'm a big rugby supporter. used to play a lot of rugby. I actually played for my province in Ireland. And at one point wanted to go professional and then got a few bangs to the head and concussions and decided probably not the right move. I actually value my brain a little bit more than playing rugby for career. Maybe that's why have a few screws to be honest, but, you know, I stay connected to my friends through sports and through WhatsApp groups and through chats and conversations. And more recently, like going to weddings, I haven't been to that many, you know, up until a few years ago. And now I get to see my friends every so often. And when I do. And I fly back to Ireland or we fly to Europe or we go to some wedding somewhere. It's like, haven't, it's like, I saw them yesterday, you know, Even though we haven't chatted every day about whatever's going on, still have close friends that I would say like, doesn't matter how long we don't see each other in, it goes back to the exact same as if we saw them yesterday. you know, I have trade-offs. I live on the West coast of America, 11 hours on a plane away from my family and friends. And that's challenging, but we make sacrifices and I love my life here. I love what I'm doing and I'm happy. So that's all that really matters.
Jolie Shapiro26:37.762
That's awesome. Would it inspire the move to the US?
David Walsh (Limelight)26:42.11
I originally came over on a student visa for three months. I was finishing college and I had a three year bachelor's degree instead of a four years, don't know why it was a commerce degree. And so I finished a year ahead of everyone. And so between my second and third year, I decided to go to the U S and I went to East Hampton in Long Island, in New York city for three months. And I worked in restaurants and I had the best summer of my entire life. And I was like, wow. I want to live in the U S this is amazing. so yeah, finished my last year in college, packed up my bags, came to the U S worked in restaurants and bars. I actually ran a, I ran a Mexican restaurant in the Hamptons for a long time. And then I ran a cocktail bar in Manhattan in the meat packing district. so came up in the hospitality industry and enjoyed it a lot. I just loved the fast paced nature of it, but I always plan to move home to Ireland. I just never got around to it. Just ended up staying. So yeah, we're here now 10 years.
Jolie Shapiro27:48.976
you were there in the US for 10 years. So I'm definitely feeling some synergy with some Taipei energy between the two of us, which is a lot of fun. Speaking of, next question. You're big on breaking goals into smaller wins. How has that shaped how you lead at Limelight?
David Walsh (Limelight)27:50.99
Hmm. Yeah. I think it's very important when you have an ambitious team to set lofty goals that are absurd. Like we are going to go and change the world. And when you set that type of crazy, I'm going to go and innovate and change an industry. You realize that it's invigorating. It's exciting. People get like motivated by it. But It also has a flip side where you can get overwhelmed. There's so much to do. Like we're so far behind for where we need to be. And so I've always found it really important to be able to set the long-term vision of the goals and the company. Like here's where we want to get to. And here's the promised land and then break it all the way down to like, here's the next 30 days. Here's what we need to do in the next 30 days. Just focus on this. And, and I think as founders and entrepreneurs and early stage startups, there's such a power in being able to focus on the right. things. You only have so many hours in a day. And I'm constantly trying to multitask across 10 different tasks. As I've matured slightly, only slightly, I've realized that like, I need to be very focused on a handful of things and do them really, really well. And so setting big lofty goals, breaking stuff down into monthly goals and objectives and then setting your own, essentially like incentivizing yourself, there's nobody to tell you you're doing a good job. Like any other company where you'd have like a boss or a director who'd shout you out at the end of the week, it doesn't exist. So you've got to make your own game and gamify it because otherwise you just get lazy. that sounds very unhealthy in a mindset, but it's actually necessary to be able to accomplish great things. You've got to be able to motivate yourself and the team around you to focus on the shorter term. Like, here's what we need to accomplish. And think it's very important to do. is it perfect? No. Does it evolve? Does it change quite frequently? Is the hardest thing to do at any moment in time, know where to spend your time and know where your team should be spending their time? Yes. So, you know, I've got better at that and communicating here's our goals and objectives. Here's the next 30 days. And then here's what I'm working on speaking out loud at the company because we work fully remotely. Here's what my goals are. Here's my sprint this week. Here's the thing I'm just going to accomplish and making sure that you're like, putting a pin on the wall and saying, are the three things I'm focused on and here's what I'm going to accomplish and letting the team know that. And then checking in with yourself at the end of the week and saying, did I do what I was intending to do or did I get distracted? And often I get distracted, but you know, it's, it's, it's an ongoing battle.
Jolie Shapiro30:57.516
for sure. No, that resonated with me so much. I've had to do this since I was 11 years old. And now I have an ocean doc where I check things off. And it's so gratifying. But it's interesting because for me, I had to start over because I didn't have what I'm working on. I didn't have the foundation. And I had like a half vision.
David Walsh (Limelight)31:09.667
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro31:26.802
but not a fully fledged vision. And I was doing it as I was, or building it as I was doing it. And you have to, it's so interesting because you learn so much about, wait a second, what is this? What is this actually doing for people? So that's really interesting that I love how you set up your team for success that way. I learned the hard way. So thank you, I'm gonna steal that.
David Walsh (Limelight)31:56.398
Well, let me give you another nugget of information, how I perceive the world and how I think listeners should think about what it's like to build businesses from scratch. When you come up with an idea and you take something from nothing to something, the majority of people will not see it the same way you do. And they'll tell you you're wrong and you're going to fail. And that's not going to work because of this reason, that reason, or this other reason. And they're just not going to resonate with them. Even in my current business, like I decided to pivot my business a year ago to focus on B2B influencer marketing on LinkedIn. Like what? Like nobody. Nobody, that's crazy. But I just knew it was going to work. And I just knew in my head that if I just applied myself, extremely like focus myself so hard on my objectives and my goals to build this company that eventually people will see it the way I see it. And it took six months of making the platform free for both brands and creators to build this marketplace to You know, the last three months were like doubling our revenue every single month and things are now starting to take off. And every single company is now coming to us and saying, Hey, I heard about you or I need to try this. I've I want to try influencer marketing. And I made this bet 12 months ago and now it's starting to play out. And so the story of why I'm sharing that with you, Jolie, is that often people get frustrated at the lack of progress and they. the negative of negativity around like launching a business and how long it takes to succeed and achieve greatness. But like, it takes a serious amount of grit and determination to be able to get no, no, no, 10 times and then get one yes and, you know, continue on and be happy and satisfied with that. So, you know, I don't know exactly where I'm going with that, but my main point is that it's really hard and people will think you're crazy. And to achieve really great things, you got to stick at it and be consistent and show up every day. Do that consecutively and it compounds. And then eventually people will see it the way you see it and they'll, they'll catch on. And so that's, that's the joy and the fun of it.
Jolie Shapiro34:29.682
That's awesome. That's a money clip right there. That was great. yeah, I was talking to Lashay Lewis and she mentioned, fail yourself into success. Which that really aligns with what you're saying. So it's really cool to do this podcast because there are a lot of different perspectives, but a lot of entrepreneurs are dealing with the same challenges. So it's... it's really interesting to get different takes on different topics, but they're all affecting you in different ways. it's been a blast. Speaking of stress, if you couldn't rely on exercise or saunas, how would you manage your stress? would be a tertiary option?
David Walsh (Limelight)35:07.81
Mmm. God, that's a toughie. I mean, those are my two go-to's. I'll tell you what I did in the past that didn't work. Alcohol, drinking, you know, I used to finish work super stressed, you know, 10 hour back-to-back meetings. And then I'd have two or three drinks almost every night. It started to just seep in. And it was great because I disconnected like, I don't care about all those issues. There's a burning fire over there. I'll deal with that one tomorrow. I'm just going to have a drink. And that was not a good, healthy thing to do, which is obvious in hindsight. But at the time it was the healthiest thing ever. It was the only thing that would actually like allow me to sit down and relax. Large glass of whiskey. The whiskey used to start like this, this big, and then it used to get like that big. So don't do that. Don't lean on alcohol. Not a good idea. Maybe that's the Irish in me that was just like, that's normal. It's like, no, it's not. Not good idea. I play a lot of golf, would say, like getting out into nature. I've realized like my golf game has got progressively worse the more I play. So I don't know what's going on there. Like everything else I invest in, I get better at. With golf, I get worse at. Yet I still go out and play. Why? Because it's not about the game and how well you strike the ball. It's about getting into nature, walking around. you know, exploring, you don't realize that when you're on a golf course, you're actually just walking around this big hill, you know, with all of these nice nature, like trees and grass and animals and things. I started to realize I come back so relaxed and compressed, decompressed after playing, even if I play the worst game of golf ever. And often I'm playing pretty bad. So, yeah, that's probably my go-to is golf. And I love it and I hate it, but, know. definitely gets my mind off things. Also, you don't have your phone out. I refuse to bring my phone out. So anything that I can just take your phone and put it into a box. And then maybe one other one I'll give you is like, I often just leave my phone at home. like put on airplane mode, throw it into a room, close the door and run the other way. And then I just go outside and I walk around and I stay as far away from my phone as possible. And so I'm very, I would say aware of my hyper addictive nature to any email. on laptop, desktop or phone. So getting rid of them and disconnecting from devices is often the only way that I can stop working.
Jolie Shapiro37:55.046
That's awesome. There's a, there's something called like a walking meditation. I think it's, mean, I don't have the attention span to do it, but you put your phone away, put it on charge, leave it at home and you walk and you notice different things. And because when your mind focuses on one thing, you can't think about another, which I probably should try, but no.
David Walsh (Limelight)38:22.506
I think a different way of saying that, which is probably the thing that I'm getting at is when you don't have your phone, you're much more present. And that goes for everything. Like I don't bring my phone to restaurants sometimes. I'm like, I'm not bringing my phone and I'll be so much more present. I'll be so much more aware of my surroundings, who I'm with and like looking for interactions between my son or my wife or the waiter. Then if I my phone, I'm like every so often I'm like, yeah, that's moving along. that's. you know, that email or that slack message that I could have waited. I'm just going to like see it. So yeah, maybe that's a bigger issue and topic to tackle, is electronic devices and handheld wearables are the devil.
Jolie Shapiro39:06.46
No, that's so true. We actually haven't talked about phones in the past episodes. It is so bad. It's just honestly, it's like a drug. feel, mean, not that I'm ever give it away, but it's honestly, yeah, yeah, bad in caffeine.
David Walsh (Limelight)39:22.594
Yep. like the best types of drugs.
Jolie Shapiro39:30.09
no, it's I think to your point, like I actually do the same thing like my my fiance and I have date night once a week and I do not bring my phone because otherwise I will be like, wait, I can't remember that movie. Who is that actress? Let me look it up. And then and then it kind of ruins the moment, I think.
David Walsh (Limelight)39:54.382
Yeah, I agree.
Jolie Shapiro39:56.124
So that's a great perspective.
David Walsh (Limelight)39:58.286
Just to let you know, I have 10 more minutes, okay?
Jolie Shapiro40:01.81
Cool, okay, 430 hearts up, okay. Let me, I'm looking at the three last questions. I like the immigrant question. This is interesting. I like all uh now you're already at the last one. I'm gonna ask these two. Okay. So pivoting a little bit, I think there's a big focus on, and you mentioned this, what you can control and what you can't control. So as a leader, how do you help your team avoid the fear of bad performance, speaking of corporations, and focus on what they can control?
David Walsh (Limelight)40:53.496
So for me, it's very simple. You have to create an environment in which people can fail. And what I mean by that is, if you don't create a healthy work culture where people can experiment and fail, then everyone's going to be too scared to push boundaries or take initiative or, you know, take on maybe tasks or responsibilities that they don't have the experience for or haven't done before. And this is especially true in early stage companies. You need to give people the freedom to try things and fail. Calculated bets. Don't just try, you know, things and throw money down the drain and make huge swinging bets that are super, super risky. Like it's calculated decision making and bets. And if you do that well, you'll have a team of people who want to work with you because you open doors for them. You accelerate their career. You help them like learn on the fly, learn from those around them. And I just have a rule like don't make the same mistake twice or you're going to hear from me. And I will notice if you make the same mistake twice and I will remind you and give out to you because you've already made that mistake once. And, and, know, I think that's really an important thing too. achieve or accomplish is like a healthy work environment is one in which people feel confident and comfortable to take risks, make mistakes, do things they haven't done before and not be feel reprimanded for it. You know, learn from it. Now I will say I have a saying that if you work with me or anyone chat with anybody that has worked with me in the past, I always say this, which is maximize the opportunities from the things you get right and minimize the downside risk from the mistakes that you make along the way. And what that really means is be hyper aware to when you take big swinging bets and you get something right, double down, triple down, quadruple down on that. When you take bets and you get things wrong, pull back and make sure that you're not too exposed. Like you haven't set up Google AdWords and set it to spend $1,000 a day and then caught up on it seven days later. That would be dumb. So that's just a funny example of a scenario that could play out. So yeah, hopefully that answers your question. I think it's really important to have healthy culture that people can make mistakes and learn and then, you know, grow together because we're human beings. make mistakes every day.
Jolie Shapiro43:29.618
Yeah, that's awesome. Side note. So they got told, you know, used from refine. You probably LinkedIn. Yeah. So I was telling them, it's so funny at the end of every episode, it's like right toward the end, like maybe two, three minutes of her. I'm like, where can I find you? I get the title. The person like they nail their title. It's so awesome. It's like because you're just calculated bets, right? So it's.
David Walsh (Limelight)43:37.016
I feel like I know I'm on LinkedIn.
Jolie Shapiro43:57.706
And it's like so on point for the entire episode. And I love it. It's I'm just like, so cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. you're going to have you're going to have like so many goodies. Great. So this was awesome. Thank you so much. Where can everyone find you?
David Walsh (Limelight)44:05.686
Nice. Glad you got a sound bite. So I'm very loud and noisy on LinkedIn. You might notice I post five times a day. It is my business. It's what drives 90 % of my growth at my company is my content on LinkedIn. My friends think I'm crazy, but if you want to go check me out on LinkedIn, it's David Walsh at Limelight or linkedin.com for slash DW one, two, three, two. And then our website is limelighthq.com. Come check us out. DM me on LinkedIn. I'll respond back to you pretty quickly. And I won't give you my email address because I don't want to get spammed.
Jolie Shapiro44:58.106
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, David. Really, really appreciate it.
David Walsh (Limelight)45:01.57
Thanks for having me, Julie.