Jolie Shapiro00:01.911
Welcome to Revenue Mind. My name is Jolie. Oh, wait, I have to redo this. on. Okay. Hey, Welcome to Revenue Mind, a podcast for revenue leaders talk all about mental health. I'm here with Tass. Welcome, Tass.
Tas Bober00:17.624
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to finally talk about this with you.
Jolie Shapiro00:22.743
Yes, it has been a wild ride. Thank you for being so patient and for dealing with the technical issues. I'm happy. No, go ahead.
Tas Bober00:24.813
Heh. Well, yeah, we have tried to schedule this for months, weeks, whatever, but we are here. We're going to make it happen.
Jolie Shapiro00:40.299
yeah, no, we've got this. Yeah, so before we get started, this is a question I typically ask. I don't prep people for this, but what makes you you?
Tas Bober00:49.485
Yeah. Ooh, my goodness. Yeah. How much time do we have? Apparently not a lot, right? Okay. What makes me me? You know, it's funny because I was just talking to somebody today about what you are typically bullied for as a child are the things that make you so appealing and unique and exciting as an adult. And so for him, you know, it was like he had moved to a new country and people were like, my gosh, you sound funny and all of these different things. And for me, I grew up in India. I'm half Thai, half Indian, and I was always considered a mutt. So I didn't really belong to either country. And I was looked at as a foreigner in both, even though I look predominantly Indian. But if you put me next to Indian people, I look very different. And then I grew up in this household with a Thai mom and an American stepdad. So was just this like clash of cultures. And so in some places, I lacked a lot of culture just because we had to find a middle ground for the family. And then in other places, you know, I dive deep into the culture. And so I find, and my mom even says that the superpower that I have is adaptability. I can move somewhere. And I can very quickly acclimate myself to my surroundings. has helped me companies, has helped me with relationships, friendships. I've lived in seven cities across three countries, in two continents. so adaptability makes me me. And then a lot of sass and spiciness, not sass as in B2B sass, that too, that too, but S-A-S-S, sass. And so the other part that my mom says is I am tactfully, or was it blindly optimistic and tactlessly honest. And that has helped me so much with my brand on LinkedIn because now I'm known as like this lovable troll who just says what everybody's thinking, but no one will say. And so, yeah, so me a little bit risky, a little bit daring, very adaptable. and I've never met a stranger, so.
Jolie Shapiro03:23.285
So cool. was talking to Mason, while back on a podcast and he mentioned his wife was a third culture, which is really interesting. So that what you were saying reminded me of that. It's you don't, feel like you don't belong to one country or another and you're kind of like in the middle. so that, that I'm sure that really shaped you.
Tas Bober03:42.819
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I belong everywhere and nowhere at the same time. yeah, kind of the human chameleon.
Jolie Shapiro03:56.992
I love that. That's really cool. So now on to the questions. Awesome. So first one, if burnout wrote you a resignation letter, what would it say and how would you apply now?
Tas Bober04:00.333
Yeah. Ooh, know, burnout for me was severe. And it's one of those things, I don't know if you have children, I have two. After I had my daughter, you know, you have postpartum symptoms, but you are never taught to recognize it. It is something we don't prepare other women for. We don't talk about it or we haven't, you know, in previous generations. My mom had me and... You know, she, again, part of the culture in Asia is very much like, you suck it up. You know, we don't talk about mental health a lot. We don't talk about those things. And maybe that's changing now. Obviously, I haven't been there in like 15 years, but at least in my family, that was very much a thing. I never saw my mom cry more than like twice my entire life. And so there was a lot of that internalizing or intellectualizing your emotions. And so when I couldn't figure out the why I was feeling this way with postpartum and things like that. And then you have this aha moment where, you know, the nurse practitioner at my gynecologist was like, like, sweetie, you have postpartum depression, and it's, it's actually quite common. And it happens to new moms. And there's a lot of transitions in your life. And only once you kind of call it what it is, you can start to heal from it and make motions to move in a better direction. But when you're kind of in this abyss where you just don't know what's happening. And that was the same thing for me with burnout is it actually happened after I entered tech, which doesn't say a lot for tech. It was just such a different beast from traditional B2B. That's what I like to call them, traditional B2B, which is kind of slower, takes a year to get a campaign off the ground. But you have a lot more security, things are just kind of... moving along and you're just frustrated at the pace going so slow. And then you pivot into SAS and things move very fast and it's exciting. But just like a race car, it's exciting. You could win and run circles around your competition, but you can also crash and burn if you don't do the pit stops. there's not really a space to do the pit stops. It's almost frowned upon. In a way, it's like, you got to keep going because you're going to slow down. Everybody's going to speed past you. So I liked it from a marketing standpoint where I could launch things a lot faster and test and iterate. And I was like, wow, this is great. I'm made for this kind of marketing. But then you don't realize that it's not conducive to having any other kind of life outside of that. You have a family, you have kids, you have a husband and, and then you're working late into the night. So was working 50, 60 hours a week at multiple jobs in tech. And there's this part of you that's like, I'm driven and I'm ambitious and I'm gonna keep going. But there's not really a lot of time for reprieve because even when you do take vacation and time off, you're just sitting there like guilty, knowing you're gonna come back to the shit show at work. And so if Burnout wrote me a resignation letter, which is an interesting phrasing. I think it's one of those things that it would say, you're not gonna realize what this is until it really just hits you in the face. And once you realize what that is, and it does hit you in the face, you're gonna realize this isn't for you anymore. So I'm doing you a favor right now and you don't realize it. You don't realize that you're gonna have to go through this like depths of emotional and mental hell. But I promise you that you will figure it out and you will get ahead on the other side. But now that you know who I am and what I am, you're going to set your life up to avoid me at all costs. So it might sound like a nightmare that you've met me, but it's going to be a dream that happens later.
Jolie Shapiro08:22.183
That's awesome. I love that answer. I don't have kids, but I have something called cyclotisphoria. it's without getting into too many details, because I could go on for a very long time, about 15 days out of the year until I got medicated, I was pretty wacky. It just makes you very wacky, very impulsive. You do weird stuff. it's like not people look at you like that's off. And it's not who I am. It's not my core. My core is very balanced, very normal, kind. I love to give back. Hence this podcast. You know, I want to make a difference in this world, but those 15 days for 10 years, I was, I was not normal. And it kind of makes you question. And then when you get stressed,
Tas Bober08:57.111
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro09:19.825
that burnout mentality, like when you get stressed and when you want to succeed, it makes it even worse. The stress actually exacerbates what I was going through. So it's just, it's really interesting. And I feel like... a lot of, to this day, don't know if like we really talk about it, like women's, women's issues, like women's, it's kind of like, you got to suck it up. You got to be the superwoman mom. got to insert cliche here and you have to be perfect. I don't know if it's like that so much anymore in terms of like the, I think it's more of an equal partnership with husband and wife, at least in the United States, but we have to be like these.
Tas Bober09:43.703
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro10:05.985
Just keep it together. And I think that when honestly it's not, I mean, I can't even imagine postpartum. I that must've been really hard.
Tas Bober10:07.746
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't understand why you feel that way. how you can love this thing so much, but also be so unhappy. so it's just, it's a lot of pressure, a lot of guilt, a change, like your life's gone through this immense change and transition, you're responsible for this thing. And even though we'd considered equal partnership, mean, my husband's an amazing father and partner and does all the laundry in the house, thank God. But... But you know, it's like, he does the same thing that I do, but he gets a lot more applause because he's the dad versus me, it's just kind of expected. And so even that where just the expectation that you have to be perfect, you have to be put together, you can work and raise a family, you can do all of these things. You shouldn't complain because your peers aren't complaining. Just those things, I feel like add so much more weight and burden than it needs to be added. so, yeah, I mean, I think we're getting better about talking about it. We're still trying to find a middle ground. We went from not talking about it at all to talking about it a lot. And sometimes we can go doomsday with the talking about it a lot. So what is that balance where it is? We talk about it, but it's in a way that's kind and helpful and respectful and doesn't actually just send someone down a bigger spiral than they're already at. Reddit's really good at that. yeah, just knowing that you're not alone sometimes is very healing. And one of the things that I did that actually got me out of a lot of this, both the burnout at work, postpartum, before my second child, was going to therapy. So I've been going to therapy for two years and my therapist, just met with her last Thursday and she was like, it's insane the amount of growth and the self-confidence and things like that that have come out, you know, after the last two years and seeing that transition. So not only going to therapy, but just being a very active participant in wanting to improve yourself and your life, mainly for you. And for once, not for everybody else, not for your kids, not for your husband, for yourself. And that's been amazing. And then, yeah, not shying away from medication if you need to take that, if that helps you feel better. Absolutely. So that stigma of not doing that. So I've been on Zoloft for, which is like child's play for medication. It's like someone. It's like adult fruit snacks, but anyway, I've been on Zola for like the last couple of years too. And it's been great. One of my friends described it as, you know, before it would take a lot of effort to go from A to B and now it's just a lot faster. And it's not a magic pill. It's not going to make you feel like immediately better, but sometimes, I mean, it helps you not sweat the small stuff. And I think that that's been really helpful, especially with me, who's very type A, very driven, very outcome focused, because that's how I've been trained as a marketer. So now to do this where, you know, I have to let go of things is a huge, was a huge problem for me. But now it's like, don't need the closure or I don't need, you know, like I can move on with my life and it doesn't. It doesn't bother me as much. have other things that need my focus and attention.
Jolie Shapiro14:11.479
That's great. I love that perspective. I've talked to lot of revenue leaders about therapy and it's changed their life. And my mom always says, should go to therapy. Like no matter who you are.
Tas Bober14:18.339
Yeah. Yes. I call it like, it's like mental flossing. It's just mental hygiene. And my therapist, was like, I don't know if I'll ever stop seeing you. She's like, oh, I want to get to the point where, you know, we can like, we know how it like, why you don't want to hang out with me anymore. you know, so she, she's, you know, we went from like twice a month and now we're once a month. Cause she's like, I feel like we're doing a lot more where you come in, you tell me a really hard situation. But you've already processed and dealt with it appropriately. And you're almost just doing a gut check with me that it was the right way or like that you didn't leave a stone unturned or where, you know, you could have handled it better, but it's getting to the point where like nine out of 10 situations you're handling appropriately. So there's a part of me that's like, I could keep taking your money, but I don't know if you need that. But it's nice to have that. objective third party and a safe environment away from your regular environments where you can just open up, talk about issues, even process things and just say it out loud to someone, you So I don't know if I'll ever stop even if she tries to make me, so.
Jolie Shapiro15:38.04
I love that. Couple of things came to mind for that. So three years ago, three and a half years ago at this point, I'm pretty open about this. I've been going to therapy for 13 years. It started off as once a week. Yeah, they say that medicine only takes you so far in a lot of ways, but a lot of therapists just, every two to three years, I was like, they're not really, I wasn't ready to be helped.
Tas Bober15:49.581
Wow. Yeah, totally. Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro16:05.751
But I talked to the therapist who I see twice a day for the past three and a half years and three years ago, or I keep fucking this up three and a half years ago. This is why I have an editor. and a three and a half years ago, she said, now it's raging alcoholic at the time. And she said, Julie, try and stop drinking and see what happens. And she saved my And that's the kind of thing that you never forget. I've thanked her profusely. But to your point, like after 13 years, it's like, you know, I can solve, mean, alcoholism, not so much. You need to follow steps. You don't need, but like you need some sort of program or support or X, Z, therapy becomes, like you mentioned, like a gut check. Like you can, you're almost like you've been in therapy for so long that you can kind of there by his.
Tas Bober17:02.871
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro17:03.167
yourself, but it's really good to get an objective third party to be like, Hey, that you're on the right track, but, or, you know, here's a different way to look at it, or here's a reframe so you don't catastrophize and do spiral.
Tas Bober17:06.456
Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly.
Jolie Shapiro17:21.343
Awesome. So I feel like we've hit a lot about this. let's, we'll move on. Awesome. This is great. Thank you. Great. So you built your business around protecting mental health, which I found really, really interesting. What's one leadership habit that would get you fired in a traditional role?
Tas Bober17:24.771
Yeah. Yeah. I have a whole list. Let's go down the list. I say no a lot right now because I can and because I could not when I was in-house. And there's this incredible power that comes from just saying no. So sometimes I'll have a discovery call with a prospect. And I mean, on paper, every every box is checked, right? They're my ICP. They're the right size company. They are they have the budget. All of these things match up, they have the resource, all the things for us to have a successful engagement. But if I feel like the person is a pain in the ass, unkind, if my gut says something tells me this will not be worth the money. I don't pursue it. So to have that luxury, and it is a privilege. So let me say that first. But in the beginning, in the first six months, I kind of said yes to everything because you're trying to figure it out. And I said yes to a lot of things that I wasn't even sure about. But that's part of therapy too, where you learn to trust yourself and your gut. And you know, they talk about a lot of crimes against women specifically, and they say, there's a lot of crime, a lot of crimes against women that happen because they want to be polite. So a stranger asks for directions. They need help, so you get in the car. You don't want to be impolite, so you stop and talk to them, you smile, which gives them the wrong signal. And one of my favorite motor podcasts, their tagline is, fuck being polite, save yourself. And so that was something that I feel like also applies here, where I'm like, fuck being polite, because being polite got me nowhere when I was in house. or it only got me so far. And so that's something that I do almost every time. So if I don't vibe with the person or the opportunity, I say no. The other thing is setting some hard boundaries. I only work three days a week. And I told myself that I was going to do that from the beginning. so on purpose, we have my son. My daughter's in kindergarten, so she's at school five days a week. My son is only two and a half. And so he is home four days out of the week, and I work three. So I always knew if I'm going to do the work-life balance thing, I want to optimize for the life part. And that means giving more to my life than to work. And so for me, that is three-day work week. Those are the days where I have childcare. I can have meetings. I can have conversations like this. I can work on stuff. And then the other two days, I'm with my son. We go to the library. We go to the zoo. We hang out. We spend time together. Or I just do literally anything else. And I'm fine with that. And so I set those boundaries. You can't schedule a call with me on Mondays or Fridays. All my clients know that I don't work Mondays, Fridays. They know that their work gets done. I set expectations. I'm very honest with most of this stuff. And anybody who tries to ask me to budge or go beyond that or outside of that, well, it kind of goes back to point one where you don't pass the vibe check and this is done. I'm happy to refund you your money. It's never worth it to me. So I set those boundaries up very quickly. Last. year in Q4, I was drowning in deliverables. And so what ended up happening was I was working late nights on the weekends and the three days and my husband's like, wasn't this like not the point of this whole thing? And I was like, Yeah, I know. So he's like, you know, we could send our son to daycare five days a week to give you some time. And I was like, Yeah, you know, that's a good idea. I'm like, wait a second. Yeah, no, we're doing the wrong thing. We're doing the thing we're trained to do, which is Okay, let me sacrifice something in my personal life so I can do more work. And I'm like, what can I do within the business and sacrifice there? So I don't have to do that with my son, right? Don't have to ship him off five days a week. And so I looked at the business, I'm like, okay, I have two choices. I can limit my capacity and say no, and just take on less work. Or I can partner with people to help me fulfill the delivery side. And so I did option two and it's been a huge weight lifted. Now I can focus more on content, other things in the business. And so I'm all about paying expertise to help me automate and do things faster, quicker, better. I met with an automation expert today. So we're going to automate a lot of stuff around the business too, so that I can have more fuck around time. And that's literally what I tell people when everyone's like, what are your revenue targets and your growth goals? like, maybe make the same or more than I did last year. No hard numbers. But honestly, to optimize for the life part more than the work part and continue on this journey of TAS's Far Ground Factory, which is the tagline of my business.
Jolie Shapiro23:37.74
That's awesome. was, other than a lot of these podcasts, I just keep bobbing and I look like, like a bobblehead. I'm just like, that's so God, I can relate to that so much. Yeah. I'm a couple things are so I it's interesting how I feel like when we're younger, we definitely follow our intuition, but then we quote unquote, get socialized and, and then we.
Tas Bober23:42.776
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro24:06.433
Sorry, that's my dog drinking water. sec. Her collar is like hitting the metal. Okay, we're good. Okay, let me start that over.
Tas Bober24:21.055
hitting the bull. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro24:30.343
I got course on my notifications came in Jesus Christ. All right, moving on. Yeah, so many things resonated with me there. I'm like a bubble head in these podcasts. A couple things I think that when we're children, we don't, we do trust our gut and we have incredible intuition. But as we get older and as we are exposed to external stimuli, I think we stop trusting ourselves. So I love that.
Tas Bober24:48.77
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro24:58.933
you put in the work and the effort. not like you just got there where you can say no to clients. Like you put in the hustle to get there and that's really cool. That's awesome. And then.
Tas Bober25:07.991
Yeah. I mean, but that's a muscle. That's a muscle you have to train too. can't, um, you know, do I cringe when I say no as like, Oh, a person who loves people. I don't want to disappoint others. Huge people pleaser. It's hard to say no. It's hard not to pursue things because you want everybody to like you. But you know, it's like, I would much rather people respect me than like me. I'm not for everybody. And that respect will come from. identifying that this is not a good fit or not. It's like when I was dating, you know, I dated a lot of people and I'm like, it's cause I just don't want them to feel bad or rejected, even though I knew that we weren't the right fit. So, you know, it's kind of the same thing with clients. And, and then there's that scarcity mindset of if I say no here, is this going to be a situation where I'm leaving money on the table? but it's always come back in other ways and other forms. So I've just learned to like not worry about it. You know what I mean?
Jolie Shapiro26:19.531
Yeah, totally. There's something else that you said that that really hit home. You were talking about boundaries and wait, yeah, got it. Yeah. And the other point that you made that I really resonated with was the three day work week. I feel like I'm at a place where even though I host a mental health podcast, a revenue leaders, I'm a total workaholic.
Tas Bober26:37.858
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro26:46.783
I've been called a bulldozer. I've been called a workaholic. Just insert, insert thing here. Cause, and I talked about another podcast, but like having challenges growing up, whether it's, you know, mental, physical insert thing here, it makes you want to work that much harder, improve yourself. But it's like, are we proving ourselves to? Ourselves.
Tas Bober27:15.532
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro27:16.471
I think I was trying to prove myself so much, prove that I could do it for so long that I could make it and that I was better than XYZ disorder that I had. And then you sit back and you're like, you know what? I think I'm good. I think you always want more. You always want to be better version of yourself, but you also There's a place where you can be content and also want more.
Tas Bober27:48.278
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the struggle too is, this a lifestyle business? Is this a growth business? And they're two different things. I have, you know, I have to tell myself, sometimes I see people on LinkedIn and I'm like, Ooh, how come I didn't hit a million in six months? Like, you know, so and so, and I'm like, but I'm not trying to do, I'm not trying to build that. I, I always have to center my goals and I go back to, I'm happy having a comfortable income. actually Dave gear heart just posted about this like couple of days ago and he said, you know, yeah, I'm okay with having a mile, like a mildly profitable business and spending more time with my family. And I'm like, yep, that's, I just want to, I just want to screw around and have fun and meet people. and write content and work on the things that I love working on. And that's it. don't, the minute I start hiring and growing like crazy, and then I have all these expenses and then the stress starts. And what am I doing? Do I care if someone acquires me or no, I don't care about any of that. So yeah, there's a part of me that's like, have a lot of mentors in the business space, but their goals are so different than mine. So I always have to center myself and say, you don't have to do everything that they're doing because they got, they have different motivations than you do. You know, and mine did come from being burnt out and I'm like, I will never want to feel like that again.
Jolie Shapiro29:28.541
Exactly. I can completely relate. It's funny. I tend to have like, I have a thought and then I get so engrossed in what you're saying. And then I completely forget what I'm going to respond. Then I'd like think about it and then come back to it and put my poor editor. I still like constantly like shop like, she screwed up again. wait, you were saying.
Tas Bober29:41.527
Yeah. All good.
Jolie Shapiro30:01.088
and boundaries like what you're doing. I lost it. I'm gonna transition. Yeah, that's great. I love that. Speaking of setting boundaries, you said no one cares when you set boundaries. So why do leaders still fear setting them?
Tas Bober30:08.472
Yeah. I think this is different in-house versus what I'm doing right now. No one cares as an external consultant that I'm setting boundaries because they're like, that's probably just her process. She's done this with other companies. Like they don't question it as much if you are an external resource coming to the company. And if you set those boundaries earlier and say, Hey, I'm not a fractional. No, no, I do not do Slack. no, will not use your company email address. You set all of those things up front and, but in-house it's much harder to set boundaries. I've tried failed miserably. And then you realize, you know, is this the kind of environment that I can survive in if I'm trying to apply boundaries? Because when I applied boundaries, they were so used to me. Not. having boundaries, that when I finally decided I was going to put boundaries down, suddenly I was not a team player. Suddenly, I was not giving 110 % to the company. Suddenly, I wasn't taking on enough to warrant that promotion or raise. Suddenly, I needed to do better, you know, in all aspects of my communication and all of these things. And So I think it depends on the environment. I'm not saying that all companies are like this. Most companies that I've had interactions with, it's kind of like, you know, we all fight for these pseudo titles that give everybody this power over someone else. And I'm like, now that I came out, actually, I keep saying this, I need to do this post where it's like, it's annual review season at the scroll lab, I just got promoted to senior CEO and You know, TBD on my raise, you know, just stuff like that where it's like, I fought so much for dumb stuff, like senior director. And it's like, what does that even fucking mean? It just means nothing. It's this, these like fake, you know, titles and fake, what do you, what is it like fake? these fake things of power that we're giving people. And it's just, means nothing, you know, it's this hierarchy and it serves other people more than it serves you. And, and I think back to my career and I'm like, when was I really just super happy as an in-house employee? And I'm like, when I was like an IC that I remember I had the best boss I ever worked for. She was amazing. She handled all the bullshit. And I was the, I was the right hand IC. Uh, who got to bitch to her about the problems that I saw and she'd go, I know, you know, whatever. And I'm like, okay, I got to vent. I went back to my desk. did amazing, good marketing work. got shit done on my list and I got to log off at five and she was in meetings until seven, eight, working on slide decks in the middle of the night. And I was like, hanging out with my husband, eating ice cream and watching, making a murder or whatever was the show at the time. That was the best time of my career. That was like halfway in my career. And then as I went into like director level, like management director level, like it just got worse and worse. And then you realize like so much of this, of the conspiracy that you just hear of is actually real. You know, it's like, you're part of the layoff conversations and you're part of the like, Hmm. XYZ is not a team player. Cause I see she's a little bit distracted. And then you realize, I wonder how much of this shit is going on behind my back. You know? And so, so yeah. And then you realize, does this stuff even matter? Like, are you killing yourself and spending all these dinners and lunches and time away from your family, working on a slide deck that you don't even remember next week? because of what? you know what I mean? So it's just now it's never worth it to sacrifice that time. You'll never get back with your kids on some stupid QBR deck that means nothing, you know. This, this podcast alone. Yeah. I was like, this podcast alone will make sure that no one ever hires me back in house ever again. So yeah, maybe I'll start a bakery or something if marketing doesn't.
Jolie Shapiro34:43.42
attention. I'm actually just writing responses. my God. Well, you got your own thing going on. So you're solid. But that actually, I love what you said. Something that, again, Mason Cosby actually referenced was in our episode was write your obituary. And that makes me think of what would you look back on when you're on your deathbed? Would you look at, I...
Tas Bober35:02.317
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro35:23.831
got from zero to a hundred million ARR? Or would you think of, oh, I was a great mom or great dog mom in my case, or a great wife, or I traveled the world, I use money as a tool and not my self-worth. Like that's the kind of stuff that the connections that you make and the people that you love. And it's so hard for people that are type A, I'm speaking from experience. You know, to actually accept that. But once you do, or at least work on it, work toward it, it might never be an actual, you might never get there, but if you can work toward it, I think that's the magic.
Tas Bober36:06.968
Yeah, totally. And I think the defining part for me too was, you know how iPhone loves to tell you like, here are your memories from this time last year or whatever. And sometimes it's like, can I, just don't remind me, okay? Where's the setting? Can I turn it off? But as a mother, you know, I look, I mean, I see some of that stuff and some of the moments that were just really eye-opening for me is it would shoot back to my daughter being two years old and I was at the height of my burnout. And I would look at my husband, I mean, this happened last week and I was like, do you remember her at that age? I'm like, I don't remember shit. I don't remember anything. I remember making, you know, going through the motions and just like, okay, get to bedtime so that I can go work for a few more hours. And just looking at that and seeing how she is now and I'm like, wow, I feel like I missed the like, everything that happened from you being 18 months old, to like, four and a half, I missed everything. And I was determined not to do that with my son. And so right now I cherish every moment with him, I've been with him through everything and so. I'm sad because I'll never get that back with my daughter. And I don't remember a single fucking thing that I worked on when I was trying to spend time away from her to get some work done. I don't remember any of that. But I do remember that I like dismissed all of that. And I'll never get that time back. And no amount of pleasing my boss who doesn't give a shit about me, you know, who's nowhere to be found today, you know, it's like that. why? Like she was never more important than my daughter. And so why did I do that? So that's kind of how I look at it and how I make decisions and prioritize where I spend my time is, you know, based on that. And it's funny, because in college, I was voted most likely to be CEO. And I was always like, okay, I'm just gonna climb the ladder. And like, that's what's gonna happen. And so it did happen. It just happened. Kind of Weirdly, technically I guess I am CEO of a very tiny little company, just me and doing my own thing, but yeah, far more fulfilled than I thought I would be if I was CEO of like 500 people or something, you know?
Jolie Shapiro38:44.471
Yeah, yeah, I totally relate to that. I feel like in companies we're just, we're just numbers. You know, we're, just, we're the bottom line after getting laid off three times in three years. like, yeah, yeah. Cause of the tuck recession and all that. Um, cause was either in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you can relate. Um, yeah, being in B2B SaaS and then being at agencies that cater to B2B SaaS, I was screwed, but.
Tas Bober38:51.683
Yeah. I mean, for me it was twice. So, yeah.
Jolie Shapiro39:13.545
The point I guess I wanted to make was I feel like in life, you know, we're so much more than that. So I love that you learn the lesson of, hey, I screwed up this time, but I'm not going to make that same mistake with my second kid. And I think that's what you hold on to, not the regret.
Tas Bober39:18.627
Yeah. Yep, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so paying attention to my daughter now.
Jolie Shapiro39:37.429
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like you didn't, it wasn't like 20 years went by and you never like, you never spent time with her. still, you still have, you know, you still have that connection and you get to see her grow up. that's, that's amazing. I'm actually got to run. So I'm going to, yeah. Okay. Well, this was awesome. Thank you so much Tess. You, you shared some, yeah, of course you shared some amazing insights that I think our listeners are really going to relate to. Where are we? Where can we find you?
Tas Bober39:41.493
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Thanks for having me. Just find me on LinkedIn, Tas, Bobo, TAS. You should find me purple everywhere. Come for the landing page insights and stay for the LinkedIn trolling.
Jolie Shapiro40:17.719
I'll definitely be in for the LinkedIn trolling, as well as the insights. Thanks again and talk soon.
Tas Bober40:22.038
Yeah, thank you. All right, bye bye.