Jolie Shapiro00:00:00
Oh, thank you, Gemini. All right. Thank you so much first of all for I'm not recording it, but thank you so much first of all for the flexibility. It has been absolute just s*** show of a year. So,
Leslie Venetz
What's going on?
Jolie Shapiro
oh, just like how do I put this? Um, I'm want to like unload, but um I'll just say it in two sentences. Two sentences. Mom has stage four terminal lung cancer and dad has advanced Parkinson's and it's like yeah it's and I'm 33 so it's you know I thought I was going to lose my parents maybe at like I don't know 50 55 60
Leslie Venetz
Yeah,
Jolie Shapiro
but it's like they're kind of on their way out maybe in the next five years so it's it's a lot to process. Um, so
Leslie Venetz
dude. That's so s*****.
Jolie Shapiro
yeah,
Leslie Venetz
Uh,
Jolie Shapiro
it
Leslie Venetz
and not
Jolie Shapiro
is.
Leslie Venetz
just the loss, I would imagine the insane emotional load
Jolie Shapiro00:00:58
Oh my
Leslie Venetz
of
Jolie Shapiro
god.
Leslie Venetz
now you probably have some like caretaking responsibilities.
Jolie Shapiro
Yep. Uh, no. He actually has a full-time care. He's a full-time caretaker.
Leslie Venetz
Praise
Jolie Shapiro
She's still
Leslie Venetz
be.
Jolie Shapiro
good. Um, goodish.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro
Um, she's she's um she's not doing chemo anymore. or she's taking this targeted therapy and we're just going to see how long it lasts. So, it's kind of like you just spend all the time you can with them. Um,
Leslie Venetz
That's such
Jolie Shapiro
and the
Leslie Venetz
fun.
Jolie Shapiro
reason I'm saying this off the record is because I posted this. My mom's like, "Take that s*** down." So, if
Leslie Venetz
Oh
Jolie Shapiro
you Yeah, if it was on a podcast, I don't know how that would go. So, that's why I'm saying it like now and not on a recording.
Leslie Venetz
yeah. Well, it's also you don't owe any part of yourself to the internet that you don't want to give them.
Jolie Shapiro00:01:44
No, no, no. It was like a father's day thing. Um but my mom's like it's too depressing. I'm like that that's
Leslie Venetz
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro
a good call.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro
But um how have you been in before
Leslie Venetz
Um
Jolie Shapiro
we start?
Leslie Venetz
fine. Like honestly so stressed out with significantly less emotionally damaging things. um just like you know balancing um my job with like writing this book and it's
Jolie Shapiro
Oh,
Leslie Venetz
it's
Jolie Shapiro
nice.
Leslie Venetz
such a gift like I'm so excited to have done the work and to be so close to putting it into the world and I know it will all be worth it but it has been a lot more work
Jolie Shapiro
Mhm.
Leslie Venetz
than I ever could have imagined and the entire process has then come with constantly having to revisit these like mental hurdles of like what if everybody hates it me like should do I even deserve to write a book does anybody even care what I have to say so it's been like like having to run my business while doing this huge lift of writing this book with also like having to do this like deep work of constantly
Jolie Shapiro00:03:00
more.
Leslie Venetz
like like h like having this self-doubt and then having to be like shut the f****** self-doubt like
Jolie Shapiro
That's something we could definitely talk about.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah, it's um it's really something, but it'll be amazing. And you know, at the end of the day, like you like I'm going to grind and I'm going to work hard to figure out how to like get s*** done. So,
Jolie Shapiro
Mhm.
Leslie Venetz
I'm getting s*** done. Like, I am on pace to launch as an instant USA Today bestseller. Like, f*** yeah. But I'm also like, okay, I'm ready for just a little bit of rest. Like a little like I'm ready for a little bit of rest now.
Jolie Shapiro
Maybe maybe like Hawaii.
Leslie Venetz
September, I'm going to Scotland.
Jolie Shapiro
Amazing. Wait, let's let's start recording before
Leslie Venetz
Okay. Okay.
Jolie Shapiro
before we forget. And then
Leslie Venetz
That's I
Jolie Shapiro
um
Leslie Venetz
host a book
Jolie Shapiro
Any
Leslie Venetz
club and I kept
Jolie Shapiro00:04:00
more?
Leslie Venetz
doing that for like it's now private. I don't um I don't record it anymore because just like it's really intimate and some of the conversations that we were having were just they were private like they just weren't for public
Jolie Shapiro
Yep.
Leslie Venetz
internet consumption. Um and so I stopped recording it but also before I stopped recording it I would repeatedly forget to press record because we'd start yapping and then it was like time to be like okay like welcome to book club blah blah blah blah. Um, and I even like put it in like bold like on my like my run of show sheet of paper and I still kept forgetting and then it became a joke where the people in the book club were like, "Hey, doesn't look like you've actually pressed record there, bud. What are we doing?" I was like, "Oh,
Jolie Shapiro
Oh my
Leslie Venetz
thank you.
Jolie Shapiro
god,
Leslie Venetz
Thanks, team."
Jolie Shapiro
that's great. Oh my gosh. Now my I can completely relate. Um, so I'm gonna press record now. One
Leslie Venetz
Yes.
Jolie Shapiro
sec.
Leslie Venetz
Great.
Jolie Shapiro
Um, okay. Oh, it's microphone. Manage recording. Record your video call. Include captions. No, I have opus for that. All right. Make sure everyone is ready. Are you ready?
Leslie Venetz
I'm ready.
Jolie Shapiro
Let's go. All right. Okay, we are live. Sweet. All right, y'all. Welcome to Revenue Mind, a podcast where we talk about all things mental health and revenue leadership with a God, I need to start that over. Hold on. There might be some retakes in this. This is why I have a podcast
Leslie Venetz
That
Jolie Shapiro
editor.
Leslie Venetz
is what I was going to say that is what editing is for.
Jolie Shapiro
Yes, I'm like I haven't done one of these in a little bit, so bear with me. Um, I have the questions up. Thank God. Okay, guys. Let's do this again. Um, all right. Hey everyone, welcome to Revenue Mind, a podcast where revenue leaders talk all things mental health. I'm Jill, your host, and with us is Leslie. Welcome Leslie.
Leslie Venetz
I'm very happy to be here.
Jolie Shapiro
Me too. I'm so happy we could finally do this.
Leslie Venetz
Yes, we deserve this. We deserve this conversation and everybody else is going to to get to join and be a part of it. It'll be great.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah. Yeah. Like it's gonna be awesome. Um, so question I don't really prep for. Just want to hear off the cuff. Um, what makes you you?
Leslie Venetz
Huh? You seen my brain go into like deep contemplative thought mode? Um, like what is the synthesis of Lesie? I don't know. Oh, I I think often about the idea that like I am uniquely me because I am the only person that has this specific set of lived experiences. But maybe beyond that, I am a person that is like quick to joy and quick to laughter. I am like deeply and insatiably curious, but often at a somewhat superficial level. Like I only want to go so deep and then I'm like it's time to learn about something new. I I Yeah, maybe that's it. Like I am a I'm a deeply curious person. I think like consuming and digesting and sharing knowledge back is my sacred calling. I want to live a life that is full of like joy and a quickness to laughter. And I want to pet all of the dogs.
Jolie Shapiro
I love that. Do you uh do you ask before you pet the dogs or you just kind of like I'm gonna take
Leslie Venetz
Of
Jolie Shapiro
my shot?
Leslie Venetz
course you ask. Oh my god. No. You would never disrespect a dog like that. You say, "May I pet your dog?" And then you like do the back of the hand so that you're like, "Oh, hello. I'm friendly dog. Do we even want to be pet?" Because not all dogs are into it. Just like not all humans want to be like touched, hugged. Um, no. You got to respect respect the situation. I'm also not trying to get like bit by a dog and then ruin my deep deep and utter like adoration for the species.
Jolie Shapiro
Exactly. Do you have dogs yourself?
Leslie Venetz
No. No, I know. I know. I have It's so funny. Well, I don't have my phone with me right now, but the the background of my phone is a dog. Um, and people are like, "Oh my god, your dog's so cute." And I'm like, "It's not my dog." And they're like, "Walk me through this. Whose dog is it? Who's whose dog is the screen saver on your phone? It's my parents dog, Bailey. She's a yellow lab. She's my best friend." Um, but no, I live in a high-rise in Chicago and I am only here about 50% of the year. for the other 50% of the year I'm on the road and Montana and Tampa meeting with clients. Um, and I like love dogs so much that I would struggle to have them in a condo and I just like I would never I'd have to send them to like an expensive doggy daycare. It would just it wouldn't be the ideal life for a dog. So, as much as I want it, it's not in the cards yet.
Jolie Shapiro
I get that. But I feel like one day it will be.
Leslie Venetz
Yes, one
Jolie Shapiro
You
Leslie Venetz
day
Jolie Shapiro
definitely
Leslie Venetz
it will be. I
Jolie Shapiro
done.
Leslie Venetz
also aspire to like have goats. I would love like a raccoon or perhaps a possum. So, I have big animal aspirations.
Jolie Shapiro
Are you going to be on a farm?
Leslie Venetz
I'll be on some. You don't need a whole farm for goats and a possum.
Jolie Shapiro
That's true.
Leslie Venetz
I just need like, you know, maybe like two acres.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah, you're just like a little two acres and you'll be you'll be
Leslie Venetz
Just
Jolie Shapiro
good.
Leslie Venetz00:09:37
like, yeah, like a cute little two acres for my goats and my possum.
Jolie Shapiro
Possumas are actually they're I I mean when they bury their teeth they're really scary, but otherwise they're really cute.
Leslie Venetz
They're so cute and they don't mean to be mean. They just have kind of a aggressive smile. Um, but they are snuggly and they are cold-blooded, so they don't get rabies and they mostly just kind of cuddle. These
Jolie Shapiro
I
Leslie Venetz
are the
Jolie Shapiro
love
Leslie Venetz
things I
Jolie Shapiro
that.
Leslie Venetz
know about possums.
Jolie Shapiro
I've never I've never learned possum fact on a podcast.
Leslie Venetz
Is this the direction that people thought this podcast was going to go? I also have come prepared with facts about flamingos. So, we could just
Jolie Shapiro
We're gonna move on to the questions before we talk for three hours about um about animals because I can do the same thing. You ready?
Leslie Venetz
Yes. Let's go.
Jolie Shapiro
Cool. All right. First up, managing a $750 million budget in a corner office in college probably set some pretty high expectations. What changed when you lost that trust in your first sales
Leslie Venetz
Um, man, I feel like everything changed. I like I don't think the experience is unique to me. maybe the the way I experienced it because I had taken on so many responsibilities like so much leadership responsibility earlier in my life and I'd been working for so many years before my like first quote unquote real postc college job um that it it maybe was more jarring for me than it was for other people to realize that most organizations are not set up to have trust trust as a default. Like it is like the the default is that we can't trust the people that we're hiring. So we need to micromanage them. Um and it was really really shocking to me because I had for so many years operated with a tremendous amount of autonomy and the respect from you know like the the elders, my peers, the people that I managed. So it was it was a pretty jarring transition for me like deep deeply humbling and I think it in many ways I like I think it sort of shook my confidence that I sort of entered the working world being like I have worked so hard to get here and I'm destined for greatness and I'm here to claim it. And then I was like, "Oh, okay." Like people notice if you if they feel like you spend too much time like on a like on a bathroom break. Literally had somebody like early in my career be like, "I've noticed that you have taken three bathroom breaks today." And I was like, "Girlfriend, do you not also see my like emotional support water bottle here?" Like, "Yeah, like what do you want me to do?" Um, so it was Yeah, it was a little bit crushing.
Jolie Shapiro
I was I was on mute but I was laughing because I I can completely
Leslie Venetz
It's
Jolie Shapiro
relate.
Leslie Venetz
literally here. Like I have
Jolie Shapiro
Well,
Leslie Venetz
my
Jolie Shapiro
let's see it.
Leslie Venetz
emotional support water bottle like right next to me. I mean, this is just one of many. I'm still an algae and girly. Um I
Jolie Shapiro
Well, let's see it. Wait. So, why why is it emotional support? I can't really
Leslie Venetz
That's
Jolie Shapiro00:13:00
see.
Leslie Venetz
just like a joke.
Jolie Shapiro
Oh. Oh, literally emotional. Oh, just Oh,
Leslie Venetz
Yeah,
Jolie Shapiro
I thought
Leslie Venetz
it's
Jolie Shapiro
literally
Leslie Venetz
like a that's like an No, that's like an internet joke that like you
Jolie Shapiro
Oh.
Leslie Venetz
like always carry around your water bottle. It's like your emotional support water bottle that you don't go anywhere without a water bottle. So, it's not a specific object. It's like the concept of never going anywhere without your water bottle.
Jolie Shapiro
Oh, I need to get on these trends, man.
Leslie Venetz
I am maybe too chronically online. I might be the issue here.
Jolie Shapiro
was like emotional water bottle. Is that a Tik Tok thing?
Leslie Venetz
He maybe I don't know.
Jolie Shapiro
Oh,
Leslie Venetz
It's an
Jolie Shapiro
it's
Leslie Venetz
internet thing.
Jolie Shapiro
it's a Yeah. Internet of Things. Um Oh, sorry. My dogs. Um Thank God for my editor. Oh, funny story. While they're barking. Um so my editor, this is Do you know Fractionals United by chance? It's one of those
Leslie Venetz
That's
Jolie Shapiro
fractional communities
Leslie Venetz
thing. Is it Scott's? Is that Scott Lisa's one?
Jolie Shapiro
maybe. But um I think so. But I I I don't know actually never knew who the uh who fielded it. That's a great question. Um but I I put up a uh an ad for a video editor and um out of the 15,000 people in that community, the person that responded was my husband's exbam mate from FSU.
Leslie Venetz
What a small world.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah, weird s***. Weird.
Leslie Venetz
That's fun
Jolie Shapiro
Weird
Leslie Venetz
though.
Jolie Shapiro
s***. But we're gonna move on.
Leslie Venetz
Okay.
Jolie Shapiro
My dogs are just barking like, "Well, might as well tell her a story." Um, cool. Yeah. No, I I had bosses um that were and cultures that were just they were nuts. It's just and it it's interesting because I feel like in our 20s we take it. We'll like we'll do well at least me. I would I would have done I'd do anything to people please in my 20s and I'm like nope I am I am not going to do that.
Leslie Venetz
No, I definitely have worked really hard to get past my people pleasing tendencies and to like um like I feel like the word boundaries is overused, but like really to have to like maybe maybe boundaries isn't the right word, but to have a lot more confidence in my worth like the worth of my time, the worth of the things that I know are important to me. So that I feel more confident saying like that's crossed a line or I'm not going to do that. That's not my job responsibility. Like I'm not working at 8:00 p.m. on a Thursday just because you forgot a deadline and now you're screwed. So it it has given me a lot more confidence. But I also like in my 20s working in toxic sales cultures. I didn't realize how toxic they were because I'd never worked anywhere else. Like I had just moved to the big city and it was my first like real job. And in my head I was like I guess this is just how it is. I guess this is just what it's like to have a professional job in the big city and I just need to suck it up and get on with it. Um, and had I realized just just how bad that culture was, I certainly would not have stayed there as long as I did.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah. No, that that makes total sense. I've been part of incredibly toxic work cultures. There was a lot of screaming. It was at a hedge
Leslie Venetz
Was
Jolie Shapiro
fund.
Leslie Venetz
screaming.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah, it was at a hedge fund. They It's It's very
Leslie Venetz
Well,
Jolie Shapiro
common.
Leslie Venetz
okay. All right. Let's check out
Jolie Shapiro
That actually leads me to my next question. Um, speaking of the the sales floor, uh, so what moment on that Oh god, you're I can't speak today. What? Oh my god. Like, wait, you're speaking way too loud. Okay, let me do this again. That leads me to my next question. What moment on that chaotic sales floor made you realize real leaders build trust, not demand obedience?
Leslie Venetz
Um, there was not a single moment that made me like suddenly realize like suddenly have the confidence to stand up for myself. That was like absolutely not what happened. Um it was I think having the numbers really helped right like that is something that I do really value about a sales job is that I was exceptional at the job. I was not just achieving quota. I was smashing quota like I was a top 10% seller. So like being able to snap back with like okay like I'm obviously better at this than you. So like say whatever you want or like you know s*** on me with whatever I'm doing to like lead with more integrity in the way I'm approaching these sales conversations versus what like you think works and what you want to do. I don't feel like your opinion matters that much because my numbers are so much better than you. So there was there was some validation in the fact that what I was doing was working really well. I got promoted really early. Um, I'd only been at that job for six months and I'd make managed people in the past, but I certainly hadn't managed sellers and definitely not sellers with way more sales experience with me who were like on average 10 years older than me. Um, but once I kind of got a handle on how to be a better leader, that also helped create more of an like ecosystem of respect. So, it wasn't just like, oh, I was a seller and could show up and do that. I also could help other people do that. So, it was like I think it was just layering all of those different experiences together and bit by bit getting more confidence in like laying down the law. I don't know. It definitely wasn't like, oh, just one day I woke up and had the confidence to stand up for myself.
Jolie Shapiro00:19:05
Yeah. Yeah. It's a really good point. It's like that um what is that saying? That incremental 1% improvement
Leslie Venetz
Yeah, like
Jolie Shapiro
every day.
Leslie Venetz
continuous a process of continuous improvement.
Jolie Shapiro
Thank you. Like I'm learning so much already and it's only been
Leslie Venetz
We're one short conversation about animals and two questions in.
Jolie Shapiro
I know it's Thank God again. Thank God for adding editors like what is happening in this episode? We're talking about possums. No, that that's really cool. Um what was it? This this actually wasn't planned, but um what was it like being a woman in sales at that
Leslie Venetz
um hostile. Yeah, it was hostile. I mean, I was um obviously one of the only women on the sales floor when I got promoted into management. I was the only women in sales management and certainly like later in my career when I was a senior leader, I was like the only woman in senior revenue leadership. There were there were women in like um like marketing and like HR but none in the the revenue like the I shouldn't say that marketing isn't in revenue but they were not nobody else that was carrying a bank like nobody else that had a number. So I did feel like I was on a bit of an island. Um, and all of my clients were men for the most part because the segments that I own were finance and energy. So it was it was on the spectrum of like deeply deeply hostile and unsafe just to like through to like kind of being lonely because I didn't feel like there was anybody that I could go to and ask for mentorship or to really like talk about some of the things that I was feeling and experiencing. Luckily, you know, later um we have things like LinkedIn and we have these communities and so I I don't think that there is as much of an issue with like women in sales feeling like they're on an island now, which is a like a very positive trend. But yeah, there were days where it was pretty lonely and there were days where it was pretty bad.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah, I'm really sorry to hear that. I've I've definitely had my my own experiences. I I was in or I've I've been demanding for a long time marketing, so I had less of the the Lonely Island, which reminds me of that band with what's his face. Um but a lot less funny. But yeah, it's it's honestly just I feel like in our at least for me in my 20s um there's a lot of like a lot of figuring it out, a lot of lot of loneliness, a lot of loneliness, a lot of I dare say pain um in work and just trying to find yourself just kind of in general, but in the workforce it's like what am I actually good at and what do I want to do? Who do I want to be? And there's like so much going on that it's just it's crazy.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah. I mean, it's one of the things that I actually like love love love the internet for now. Um because there is it is so much easier to find community and even if it's like super informal community where you're on TikTok, but you're hearing people on TikTok like share their version of your story and you're able to say like, "Oh my gosh, okay, like I'm I'm not alone. I'm not the only one who's gone through this experience." or like last night I had a dinner in Chicago with the women in sales community and so it was amazing like we I got to sit around the table with 24 other women and we were all there to celebrate like my book so it's like would even 10 years ago something like that have been so easy to put together and easy to get women at like I I don't know and now it's like me I'm the one writing the book and there's this amazing community that that you know Alex at Women in Sales has put together and these 24 incredible women that like came to support me another woman in sales. So it's I would like to think it's like I I know that toxic culture still exists. Like I'm not naive and I know that there are still people not just women but like plenty of people still being like abused in toxic workplaces. But I do have a sense that because there is more transparency and visibility, because there are more like communities and more conversations happening that expose that bad behavior, it's not as prevalent as it used to be.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah, for sure. I feel like there are definitely negatives of the internet, but the positives is you don't you're laughing. You're funny. There are definitely negatives of the internet, but the I feel like a lot of the positives, especially with the movement toward communities, you don't feel so alone. I' I've talked about this on podcast before. I uh I went through program AA 12 steps and you have this higher power, all that good stuff. Um, mine was connection and community. That's what got me through. And then I started a uh a 20s and 30s um sober ladies group on Meetup and it's like 600 something members and we hike and go to get mocktails and like that's what keeps me sober. I mean the people. Um so
Leslie Venetz
Okay,
Jolie Shapiro
I feel like
Leslie Venetz
I love that. But that's really that's important for so many reasons. Not only because in in early days where folks are grappling with their own sobriety, just like having a safe place to land is super important, but also later I would be so afraid of losing my community that that would help create like another layer of motivation for me to stick on the sobriety journey because I would be like, I don't want to lose these people. I love it here.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I actually I got a little freaked out because I have a one of my friends husbands was five and a half years sober and they didn't work the program and they slipped and then drank for another I'm like I'm going back to AA man.
Leslie Venetz
So
Jolie Shapiro
Even
Leslie Venetz
sorry
Jolie Shapiro
if
Leslie Venetz
to
Jolie Shapiro
it's
Leslie Venetz
hear
Jolie Shapiro
No.
Leslie Venetz
that.
Jolie Shapiro
No. No. Oh, they're they're they're back on they're back on the horse.
Leslie Venetz00:25:38
Oh, good.
Jolie Shapiro
But
Leslie Venetz
Okay.
Jolie Shapiro
um yeah, they're good. But um yeah, slipping is scary. Uh but I digress. Let's get back to you. Um, so it sounds like you did learn how to say no over the course of your career,
Leslie Venetz
Yes.
Jolie Shapiro
which is awesome. Um, how did learning to say no free up space for what truly matters to you and your work?
Leslie Venetz
Um, okay. But I do feel like this is all connected. Did you read the book Quit Like a Woman? Oh my god. It's I'm going to show it. I'm going to show it to people. It's here on my shelf like front front and center. Um I am obsessed. So it's called Quit Like a Woman: The Radical Choice to Not Drink in a Culture Obsessed with Alcohol. And the author is Holly Whitaker. And I don't know if you can see like how ruffled the pages are. Um like with my like notes on them and stuff like I've read this
Jolie Shapiro00:26:34
Deal
Leslie Venetz
book three times. It's such such such an incredible book. And I'm not sober. I'm soberish sober adjacent. Um, but a lot of what she talks about in this book is like building a life that you never want to escape from. And so I like I do feel like it's all related because when you're thinking about like you know how did you get past those tox toxic works environments or like how you know how did you have the confidence to create the boundaries or like how ultimately did I get to where I am now as being like a founder. I'm my own boss. I'm the best boss I've ever had. So much of it is wrapped up in answering that question like how am I building a life that I never want to escape from? in order to build a life that I don't want to escape from, whether it's like, you know, through drinking or whatever people are are doing to like get rid of that like hyperarousal or or sadness. If you don't have a job that like where where you work for somebody that you like, you don't have to love them, but like where you at least like don't hate them, right? where you where you get to sell something that you're proud to sell at a company that you're proud to work for and you work with people and for people that you respect where there's some trust building like everybody deserves that and yeah I don't know I I it is all it is all sort of tied together because this is one of my very very favorite books and it is about sobriety and that is like the primary question that she calls readers to ask.
Jolie Shapiro
I love that. I
Leslie Venetz
It's
Jolie Shapiro
need
Leslie Venetz
like
Jolie Shapiro
to
Leslie Venetz
a
Jolie Shapiro
read
Leslie Venetz
10
Jolie Shapiro
it.
Leslie Venetz
out of 10. Like I I love that book. It's so good.
Jolie Shapiro
That's amazing. Yeah. Honestly, the sobriety is the best thing that ever happened to me. I mean, it it completely changed my life in so many ways that I can't even really fathom. I mean, there were so many times where I shouldn't have made it, you know, and I and uh I don't know if it was whatever universe looking out for me, like we'll give you another shot, but I woke up one day, I'm like sick and tired of being sick and tired and I'm I'm I'm ready for program. I'm ready to get better. And it's uh I'm really looking forward to reading that book.
Leslie Venetz
I It was It was really like it was really important to me. I I had like a similar moment um two and a half years ago, January 19th, and I woke up with a terrible hangover. And I I had already left corporate and so I was like already working really hard to create this new life for myself. But I was I think like I did not realize how deeply entrenched some of the like narratives and beliefs that I had had drilled into me in you know 15 plus years in corporate were. And so I was feeling just this insane this tremendous amount of guilt for trying to build the life that I wanted to live. And like one of the main things that I like I work a 4-day work week and I take Monday off. Um but I I don't take it off. I don't do revenue generating work, but I still do work. I do self work. I do like an extra long meditation and I do yoga and I journal for like two to three hours and I read and I write. So, it's like it's not that I'm not working. I'm just working on myself. And I don't know, I was just still grappling with like so much self-doubt and so much guilt. And I was very much not recovered from burnout. So, I was still feeling a lot of burnout. And I just kind of felt stuck in a constant state of hyper arousal. And I I I couldn't get out of it. And so I was drinking to like bring myself down at the day from that state of hyper arousal because the coping mechanisms I had like were not sufficient enough. And so I thought I'm going to do this 100 day sober curious reset that I've like seen on the internet. Um and I did it like I did the journaling and then I followed that up with um I don't remember what her name is. First name is Gabby and it was like a 40day one. I don't know if you've seen that book um as well. I don't I can't see the title on my shelf. Um, but it was like this incredible it gave me the space to ask and answer a lot of the questions that Holly is asking in this book, which is like what what habits are you carrying forward without realizing that do not serve the new life that you're trying to build for yourself? And like I said, like ultimately I decided that I was not called to sobriety. But taking that time where I just was so sober, so clear in the head to think through all those things, it like it fundamentally changed my like the trajectory of my life and my career.
Jolie Shapiro
That's amazing. If you don't mind me asking, what were the narratives and beliefs that you were carrying?
Leslie Venetz00:31:54
Um, well, I I'm laughing not because it's funny, but because it's like so sad in retrospect. But I was like going um through at the beginning of this year, I was going through my journal um and some of the the stuff that I was grappling with at the time. And one of the questions I asked myself is um what if I give myself this space to like not like grind and hustle so hard and I find out that I was really lazy after all. What? That is such a mind f***. Like what? So, it was like I was so wrapped up in this like hustle and grind corporate narrative and like work yourself to the bone, do whatever it takes that I was I had internalized that rest equaled laziness. Like I had internalized that taking care of myself, that giving my body and my soul time to reconnect made me lazy. Crazy. It's like it's crazy to think about now after having done, you know, three and a half years of like deep deep work reckoning with those beliefs that I left behind that I ever could have asked myself that question. Like no, I'm not lazy. Like I am one of the grittiest, hardest working people I know. But you can work hard and also give yourself space to heal and rest and like some days just rot on the couch.
Jolie Shapiro
I I feel that um I'm actually actually it's the first time talking about it. So um I have a eating disorder. Um so I am currently going through a actually just started. I'm currently going through a uh an intensive outpatient program. It's virtual which is awesome. Love virtual. Um but um Oh my gosh. I had a point to connect to you and then I like Hold on. You were talking about this my ADHD. You you you sparked a you sparked a moment and I s***. What
Leslie Venetz
Um,
Jolie Shapiro
was your last one?
Leslie Venetz
like maybe letting go of some of the internal belie like some of the things that we believe about ourselves that are not true.
Jolie Shapiro
Oh, I got it. Thank you. Um, yeah, I totally feel that. I'm uh I'm currently in a different program. Uh, just a different addiction, different day. And what I realized is not only am I I'm not lazy with everything else except myself. And that I I love that you put the work in like that because I will do anything for for people I love for my dog who's sleeping over there. Um you know I'll I'll do I'll bend over backwards and lift the world up, lift the car up, you know that those crazy stories. But when it comes to myself, I just I think I need to put in the work, too. Um, so I'm hoping that this program really helps with that because it's when you when you give so much, it's it's almost like you want to give to everyone else but yourself. And that I think is a coping mechanism. Um, and I just I was I was saying last night in my program, I was like, I don't want to feel. I just want to eat. I'm just going to eat my feelings. And then I asked everyone, I said, "Raise your hand if you also stuff your feelings." And there were like 10 people that raised your hand. It's so common. It's so common. Not not I mean addiction, no addiction, but it's so common for us to throw ourselves into things because we don't want to deal with it.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah, I think everybody has addictive tendencies to some extent whether or not they are maybe more like socially acceptable ones or lesser or whether or not they want to like name it as addiction. like we all have like dopamine seeking behaviors to to some extent. But first like major congratulations to you for having the courage to like seek help and then show up and put in the work. And maybe what I would offer you, because this is a a a pretty big transition that I made in my own mindset, is that I don't use the word lazy anymore because there has never, not once, been a time that I was lazy. Like there were times that I needed rest. There were times where I was like doing my best and maybe it just like wasn't enough that day. There were times where I pushed myself so hard to perfectionism that I had convinced myself that like my best wasn't good enough. You like there there are so many different things that were happening and I maybe was labeling them as a character flaw and putting lazy on top of that. But like never not once have I actually been lazy. And I would guess like 100% that that is also true for you.
Jolie Shapiro
Oh yeah, that that's awesome. Thank you so much for that. Actually, I love my segways now because like I used to my my first my first episode was actually with Chris Walker and I was so nervous. I just asked
Leslie Venetz
Yeah,
Jolie Shapiro
like
Leslie Venetz
that's a big guest.
Jolie Shapiro
it was a big guy. I asked like 10 questions in a row, didn't respond. I was
Leslie Venetz
You're like, "So, anyways, and what's your favorite color? And also, what's your sign?" And
Jolie Shapiro
it was there was like there's like this I think when my editor re he re-edited it I'm like oh my god I sound like a flirty little girl like please cut that out. I sound like like I like a B2B crush on him. So
Leslie Venetz
that's funny.
Jolie Shapiro
um I was like I
Leslie Venetz
That's
Jolie Shapiro
was like
Leslie Venetz
very
Jolie Shapiro
please
Leslie Venetz
funny.
Jolie Shapiro
God cut that out. Um, anyways, um, speaking of lazy, that's that's awesome. Thank you so much. Um, you actually mentioned your 4 day work week. So, how do you explain to critics that protecting your time also adds real
Leslie Venetz
I don't have to explain anything to them. Like, you don't like it. It's not your life. You don't have to live it. You don't have to do it. I'm not out there like selling a course telling people that like, oh, for $999 I'll teach you too how to do a 4 day work week. I'm just over here living my life. And if people don't like it, that reflects work that they need to do on themselves in my opinion. And I say that as somebody who had to do that work to get to to where I am today. Um, but it's interesting like even though there's like a lot of narratives that we see around like quiet quitting and then you really push somebody to describe what quiet quitting is and then they will describe somebody doing the job that they're paid to do, but just like not going above and beyond for work that they like work and effort that they are not being paid to put in or like there was a whole like bare minimum Monday. And then when you ask people what bare minimum Monday is, they're like, well, they come in and instead of just immediately jumping into meetings, they're taking time to plan their week. And you're like, oh, the horror. So I Yeah, I just I I don't owe anybody justification of how I choose to live my life.
Jolie Shapiro00:40:11
I love that. I need to get there. A lot of people need to get there. It's a lifelong
Leslie Venetz
It's it's
Jolie Shapiro
f****** journey,
Leslie Venetz
like
Jolie Shapiro
man.
Leslie Venetz
right and I like I'm not like I've done a lot of work and I I would say like I would say like 18 months into the work I felt a turn on like the burnout recovery like I like I physically could feel that my body was was different because of like the you know the mental and emotional work I had done recovering from burnout. So that was definitely like a milestone but there is always more work to be done. I mean and that's why I still have that same Monday schedule of like journaling and reflection and meditation and reading and writing and all of that. And I think, you know, I was talking to one of my really good friends, Megan Mishak, about this like entrepreneurial journey, and I said that what has made me realize is that I have limits, but also that I am limitless. But like the the the opportunity to tap into things that do spark the mo most joy or like where I can give the most to my clients or where I can be most creative or be most strategic that only comes from also understanding like what my limits are being okay with acknowledging the things I'm not good at and delegation and making space to work on the business instead of in the business. So it's yeah it is like work that I keep showing up and doing on a you know on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm learning the the same things um with something I'm I'm starting up. But what um do you mind getting into the work that you did if if poss if that works for you? No pun intended.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah. Um I no it was like yeah I mean I will it was nothing special. It was like simultaneously so so special and so transformative but it was also like nothing special. But I think like I also see this one like in in sales too where everybody's looking for like the silver bullet. Everybody's looking for like the siny object like what is the answer to my pipeline project? what is what is the quick easy solution? And the not very popular answer is that there is no quick easy solution. And so it wasn't like oh I you know did a couple sessions of of therapy and wham bam here I am. I'm fixed. I I think for me the journaling practice was is probably been the most important part of this journey for me. Um, so I'll talk specifically to that because what what I did when I started journaling was that I was journaling every single day because that's what like the people on the internet said you should do is to like have a daily journaling practice. And very very quickly I realized that that made it feel like a chore to me. And I also like I don't need to jot down like a couple of superficial thoughts on a daily basis. So when I pivoted to journaling two to three hours every Monday where I was going really really deep where I wasn't just saying like oh that kind of triggered me or like that made me feel sad then I was like but why but why but why and and forcing myself to to to really really dig in. That was much more powerful. And I I layered that journaling in with some shadow work. And so I was using some shadow work prompts. So if folks don't know what that is, it's sort of like, you know, reckoning with some of those deep held like fears, beliefs, etc. Um, and I did I did a grat a nightly gratitude journal that I really really loved for maybe like three or four of those and they were all pretty long. So I maybe did that for like a year um of rewiring my brain to look back on every single day and think about the good things that happened in it. But also part of that was teaching myself that a good day didn't have to be a happy day. like I didn't have to be all the way leaned into that like scratching that dopamine niche of like best day ever. And I think just coming to terms with the fact that like every single day doesn't have to be this like high hitting I was at the heights of happiness like best day ever and that just having some neutral days was really powerful. So there were and like I said I did like the 100 day sober curious journal. I did like a Gabby something. It was like a 40-day journal. I really liked that one as well. Um, so it was a combination of freestyle journaling to go deep, deep, deep and then also using other people's journal prompts to explore very specific questions.
Jolie Shapiro
Yeah, that's awesome. I think for me big part of I never I'm not super consistent, but when I am, I uh so actually I I wrote down just kind of I did an exercise where I just wrote down everything that was going on and I put in the chat GPG, of course.
Leslie Venetz
That's very Gen Z of you.
Jolie Shapiro
Oh, thank I'm a millennial. But yes, but I it was really it was a very as funny as it was actually a really powerful moment. I just put like just a brain dump of everything that was going on. And what did it say? It said something like you're you have every right to not be okay right now. And I start crying. But just but just to like get that validation of that silly saying, it's okay not to be okay. But you know, like that that from a robot. I got validation from chat GBT.
Leslie Venetz
But you're like, objectively, this robot says that it is okay for me to not be okay.
Jolie Shapiro
Thank you. Yeah. It's like cuz everyone says that but it's you know just and looking at all the stuff that was happening this past year I was like wow I don't know how many people could get through this and I think it's and your journaling prompts I don't know about you but I feel like I realized I was a badass. Yes.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah. I I like it just I don't know. And I I also stopped going to talk therapy, which is maybe like like kind of a counter take to what people like when you're doing some of like the heaviest, deepest work of your life to stop going to talk therapy. Um, but I just like I felt like talk therapy I was just like circling around the same s*** over and over and over again. And like I already overintellectualize like I already like I already know the things like I don't I don't need to sit down with people and talk about the problems I already know that I want to solve and like where the trauma comes from and like that it's an issue like I already know I need to process like how to get on the other side of it like how to be okay with it. And I I think I felt a lot safer doing that on my own pace in the journals and like really getting to like sit with the thoughts and yeah like like there there were many points where I was like girl you're doing a good job like very much that energy cuz you like like having That's so weird. That was me. My internet went out.
Jolie Shapiro
I don't know what happened. Um, let me just make sure. So, there's like Do you see yourself like this?
Leslie Venetz
Yeah. In like this.
Jolie Shapiro
Huh? Let's see.
Leslie Venetz
Kick
Jolie Shapiro00:50:18
Um,
Leslie Venetz
my kick my butt out again.
Jolie Shapiro
let me see if I can kick you out. Remove from the call. If I don't remove you. One sec. Okay, we're good. That was
Leslie Venetz
Okay.
Jolie Shapiro
so strange.
Leslie Venetz
No, it was me. It was my internet. My internet went away.
Jolie Shapiro
Oh, well that that would explain
Leslie Venetz
I
Jolie Shapiro
it.
Leslie Venetz
not sure why I have 5G in my downtown Chicago highways. Um I have to jump for a meeting anyways. But I will finish that thought that
Jolie Shapiro
Yep.
Leslie Venetz
like
Jolie Shapiro
Great.
Leslie Venetz
um I like how like journaling gave me the privilege of being able to go at my own pace in terms of the questions that I was like ready to ask and answer and then supplementing my own journaling with the prompts of other people like helps me push enough outside of my comfort zone or maybe come up with new questions that I wouldn't have asked on my own. Um, but I still show up every single Monday and like continue to do the work. So it is yeah to your point for sure an ongoing process of self-discovery and um uh I think both acknowledging how far we've come and congratulating ourselves for the hard work that we've already done but also like continuing to to sign up to build the life that we never want to escape from.
Jolie Shapiro
You just gave me the title. Thank you. Everyone gives me the title right at the end. Um, well, this is great. Thank you so much, Leslie. I know you're on LinkedIn, but would love to love to hear from your perspective where people can connect with you if they have questions.
Leslie Venetz
Yeah, LinkedIn for sure. My debut book drops on August 5th. Very exciting. So, uh, if people want to check that out, it's called Profitgenerating Pipeline. It's at every e-commerce retailer. Uh, you can also go to salesledgm.com/book. Uh, and if you put in your confirmation code, I have like $400 in freebies, like my virtual launch party where I'm giving away $1,000 worth of stuff, live launch parties, um, other free stuff. Um, so that's a that's yeah, that's very exciting. I mean, I pretty much like I'm chronically online, so you can find me everywhere, but buy the book, find me on LinkedIn for my daily takes.
Jolie Shapiro
Awesome. Well, this is great. Thank you so much,
Leslie Venetz
Thank you.
Jolie Shapiro
No, which I loved. Transcription ended after 00:53:08 This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.