Jolie Shapiro00:01.682
Hey everyone, why is it telling me a live stream? Hold on, no, we're good. Okay, I might screw up a couple of times. So just like, I'm gonna do retakes and I was like, what are you talking about? was like, what are you talking about live stream? No. All right, hey everyone, welcome to the Revenue Mind Podcast. I'm Julie, your host and with this is, and I need to do it again, hold on. Okay, hey everyone.
Devin Reed00:05.678
That's okay. I did all the time. Go for it.
Jolie Shapiro00:27.334
Welcome to the Revenue Mind Podcast, a podcast where we talk all about mental health with revenue leaders. With us is Devon today. Welcome, Devon.
Devin Reed00:35.16
Hey, thanks for having me.
Jolie Shapiro00:36.954
Yeah, thanks so much for coming on. I'm so happy this worked out.
Devin Reed00:41.196
Me too. I know it's been a long time coming. You were very patient and very kind with my many reschedules, but I always knew we'd make it.
Jolie Shapiro00:50.992
Yeah, it's all about getting there, right? Awesome. Okay, so I don't prep a lot of people for this. Actually, anyone for this. The first question before we get into all the mental health revenue stuff. What makes you you?
Devin Reed00:54.328
fully. Oof, that is a deep reflective question. And a very good one. You can cut the long pause. It's such a good question that it makes me want to give an equally thoughtful answer. I don't know if it's, yeah, there's no right answer. There's just the answer I give today on a Friday. I would say what makes me me is my love and passion of bringing people together and making sure people are having a good time. It could be for a whole party, could be for like one moment in the day, but that's one thing that I try to do is I try to give like one moment per day to make someone's day better or easier or something like
Jolie Shapiro02:00.602
I love that. That's awesome.
Devin Reed02:02.081
Thank you. I appreciate the immediate validation. That's a deep question to put myself out there. That was my most honest answer of the day.
Jolie Shapiro02:10.262
you just wait until we get into these questions. Yeah, that's a, did you play basketball? You look like you have the build.
Devin Reed02:12.673
Yeah, this is the warm-up. I did, I did, and I still do a little bit. Yeah. I played a high school, junior college, and then now I play old man pickup.
Jolie Shapiro02:28.498
Oh man, pick up. Is that, they're reminds me of like the Adam Sandler movies?
Devin Reed02:34.24
Yeah, that could be his next movie, honestly, his old man pickup and it's just him playing basketball with, you know, middle aged men. But yeah, so that's, that's me. I'm older than the young guys and a little younger than the old guys. So I'm in that middle ground right now, but yeah, I still, I still play a couple of times a week.
Jolie Shapiro02:51.858
Yeah, you're like in the right in the range. He's actually very good. Adam Sandler is like a really, really good basketball player, which is really funny.
Devin Reed02:58.166
I've seen, online, like random clips of like, think New Yorkers or whatever, you know, whatever city he's in. And they're just like, yeah, so we were shooting around and Adam Sandler and a five X polo tee showed up and four X shorts. If anyone doesn't know what I'm referencing, go Google it. He really does just wear like the baggiest clothes that can't be functional for a game of basketball, but that kind of adds to the allure, suppose.
Jolie Shapiro03:21.456
and then he slays. Well, I want you to get to your, I know it's a Friday afternoon, so we'll dive into the questions. You ready?
Devin Reed03:23.106
And then he kills. Yeah. And he's great. Let's go.
Jolie Shapiro03:32.76
All right. So you began life as an English major, immersed in narrative craft. How did your anxieties into stories help you tackle imposter syndrome on Gong's sales floor?
Devin Reed03:47.607
Can you read it one more time and I'm going turn my volume up a little bit? Thanks.
Jolie Shapiro03:50.97
Of course. You began life as an English major, immersed in narrative craft. How did turning your anxieties into stories help you tackle imposter syndrome on Gong sales floor?
Devin Reed04:05.134
Wow, you weren't kidding. We are going deep. Okay, you invited me, I'm gonna accept and share some things I've probably never shared on a podcast before. You know, if I had maybe answered the what makes you you differently, another answer I probably could have given was my ability to turn pain into progress. And early in my life that did a great service to me because I was able to Basically turn things that I don't know, some people might call traumatic or semi-traumatic or even just really negative experiences that maybe don't necessarily hit the traumatic threshold and internalize them and turn them into ambition, turn it into motivation and commitment. And it did a really good thing for me because it helped me grow my career from day one. And I've had more success in my career than I anticipated. And that's more of those insecurities talking and not that I'm, you know, flexing by any, any sense of the word. And so earlier was really good for me. And I would take those moments where I remember feeling down, feeling like I wasn't enough, feeling like I would never cut it, feeling like I was an imposter, a fraud and radically unqualified for the job I was in. Name the year I could probably apply, you know, apply to that. and say, know what, other people probably have a version of this too. And I'm going to try to focus on that and turn it into a story. And we're going to start right there in the pain. We're going to start right there and grip you in some sort of emotion. And then back to the English major, and I was an education minor, so I was going to go be an English middle school teacher. I love turning someone's day around by helping them in that moment. And then later they come back and they're like, man, you said this one thing or you shared this one story and you know, I applied it and it worked. And so I would take those stories and start with the pain. And then I had an opportunity to help salespeople become better sellers through the content that we were creating. and so, yeah, that's how I would say I've kind of applied it.
Jolie Shapiro06:19.238
That's awesome. You're killing me so far.
Devin Reed06:22.19
Thank you. I'll take it.
Jolie Shapiro06:25.554
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for me, I definitely, you know, the whole reason I started this podcast, if I've also had a lot of challenges and traumatic experiences, won't even get into them. But it really helps me. I think what it did for me is it makes me really empathetic to people and For you, I like that you want to make someone's day because maybe, I mean, I'm not trying to be like a therapist, but you want to make someone's day because you had X, Y, Z pain. So you want to make someone else feel good because maybe you weren't good. And I'm actually the same way. The way I do that is I listen to people and people tend to tell me their entire life story. I don't know what it is, but I will.
Devin Reed07:07.15
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro07:19.214
do Bumble BFF, which is like a friend matchmaking thing, and I'll go on a blind friend date and someone will tell me their entire life story. I don't know what gene it is. Apparently it's a gene in my family. But I think just in general, people like to be heard.
Devin Reed07:30.36
We'll you
Jolie Shapiro07:38.202
and people like to be helped. And it sounds like you help people help themselves.
Devin Reed07:45.23
Yeah, in a way, I joke sometimes I'm like a self-help coach. You know, I that comes with like kind of like weird connotation is like a, you know, life coach or whatever. But yeah, to kind of your point, I think I did spend a lot of time growing up feeling alone or feeling abandoned for some reason. And knowing how that feels and then knowing how good it feels to turn that around is is a great gift. know, and I'm sure you have memories, you know, moments too, as you you nod with me here. Um, and so yeah, and I know like, you know, Hey, I work in SaaS marketing. I'm not, you know, I know I'm not changing the world, but I'm trying to change someone's day. Um, and I think that's a good, you know, good addition. It makes me feel good. You know, it makes other people around me feel better. And, um, so yeah, that's, that's like always the biggest motivation aside. Um, the most intrinsic motivation for sure.
Jolie Shapiro08:36.882
That's awesome, I love that. and your wife is an amazing writer, by the way.
Devin Reed08:40.75
Thank you. will relay that to her right after this and she will blush and she will love you. You'll be her new best friend.
Jolie Shapiro08:48.05
Sounds good. Yeah, I come across her post. I'm like, damn, that's Yeah, she's very, very clever.
Devin Reed08:53.966
She is. She's incredible in person. She's picked up LinkedIn lately and really gone all in and I'm incredibly proud of her and sometimes envious in a healthy way of her success. Kidding, of course, but no, she's crushing it and yeah, I'll relay that to her.
Jolie Shapiro09:12.358
Yeah, perfect. Awesome. Great. All right. Next one. You're good. You're ready.
Devin Reed09:18.562
Yeah, tank is still full.
Jolie Shapiro09:21.074
All right, cool. Yeah, let me know on off record. Like, let me know if you're not good. cool. Okay. Great. So next question. The ability to write compelling narratives clearly served you well. By your first year closed over 1 million error. What mindset ritual kept you grounded when deals move faster than you ever imagined?
Devin Reed09:25.368
yeah, we're great. Yeah, keep going. Yeah. This one is a not as deep answer and that's not a reflection of the question. It's more of like because sales is so hard and you get screwed over so much. And I mean screwed over as in like just things that should happen don't happen. Things that should not happen do. And it's just a huge roller coaster career. And so when once in a great while you get a bluebird, like an unexpected deal falls in your lap, or a 20K deal turns to a 100K deal and it closes sooner, you just take a big breath of gratitude and you're like, the sales guys looked at me today with favor and man, I'm just gonna soak this in for a second knowing the next curve ball's right around the corner, maybe after lunch. So yeah, I would say it's more of these moments of just relief and thank God than it is like. Staying grounded my head never got bigger. There's never a mountain I've ever hit where I'm like, I've got it all figured out As soon as you say that or think that the sales gods Spite you or smite you. Yes might that's the Old Testament word
Jolie Shapiro10:57.596
That's reminding me of Avengers with Thor. I don't know why that came to my head, but that... Yeah.
Devin Reed11:01.442
Yeah. I have no infinity stones and I'm just trying to get by.
Jolie Shapiro11:10.491
Ask me to tell the podcast.
Devin Reed11:12.492
Yeah, there it is. can have it. That writes itself.
Jolie Shapiro11:14.436
I have no infinity stones. Cool, all right. Great, so from that first million to helping Clary jump from 20 million to 200 million, you sprinted through hypergrowth. Do you have any personal practices during that time that became non-negotiable for your sanity?
Devin Reed11:37.18
yeah, absolutely. So during that time we started having children. So I became a dad in 2020, a dad of two in 2022. And so that introduced a new dynamic to my life, which isn't just, you you have your buckets of life, right? You have your, maybe like your family relationships, your personal health, right? Whatever, you know, however, however you have those buckets and however many you have, I think you can really only have about three. like really, you know, real buckets. like, you know, family relationships is obviously it can be a large bucket for some people. Being a dad became a new bucket right next to this giant, well established bucket called Devon's Ambition and Career. And that was the big dog on campus, so to speak. And so when I introduced this new, you know, dynamic to my life, I'm a dad now. Not only was I learning, you know, as rapidly as I could, mostly through trial and error of how do I want to be a dad? How am I going to be a dad? There was also the sometimes conflict or tension between those two parts of my life, which is, you know, a provider now for a family and wanting to grow my career. And then, you know, being a present father and, you know, making that the most important priority in my life, because that's a limited time offer. Careers. You know, like you can say they come and go, but they change. can always, you can always find something else. you know, having gone from sales to marketing, I'm like pretty confident other than maybe coding. I could probably figure it out. And so, yeah, there was just a time I remember I was working late. and late was only like five 15. I was like five o'clock and, my wife was in the other room with Rumi, our newborn. And, she was probably around eight months old at this time. And. I remember looking at the clock, it was like 5.05, I'm like, okay, one more thing. And my wife and Rumi and her parents in the other room, and I can hear like laughter and conversation. And I'm like, okay, one more thing. And I look, it's 5.08. And my wife texts me she's like, come in. I come into the other room. I look at the clock, I'm like, okay, just finish this last thing. And then I hear this like roar of like celebration and laughter in the next room. And my wife texts me, she goes, Rumi just rolled over for the first time. Yeah. And so that was like the first time I failed, I would say, and was the first time where I was like, all right, these boundary things are real and I need to get me some. And that was like the first time I was like, all right, I need to like set hard boundaries of when do I work, when I don't work, you know, and that phrase has become a trigger in my head, which if I say, one more thing is like, don't let like, don't miss out on a memory for one more task, you know? And so Yeah, that was kind of like the first boundary. Luckily, I've said a lot more and it's molded over time as my kids go from babies to now toddler Disney princesses.
Jolie Shapiro14:41.478
That's so cute. Do they have the skirts? the...
Devin Reed14:45.836
I'm in the midst of laundry day. it's Fridays are often laundry days and that's dad duty. I will tell you, I've already put a countless number of skirts, Disney dresses, Jasmine mermaid stuff. Yeah. And I'm halfway done. So yes, we were, we were all in.
Jolie Shapiro15:00.294
That's awesome. I was a devil in kindergarten. I was like a devil. no, for Halloween. Also, yeah, probably literally too. I was was a monster when I was five, but I was a devil for Halloween. But that's I mean, in all seriousness, I that's I think coming to that realization is pretty amazing. I I realized the same thing. I'm
Devin Reed15:03.32
You're the devil like for like literally like figuratively or for Halloween
Jolie Shapiro15:28.356
I don't have kids, but I'm in the middle of building something and you get so sucked in to whatever it is, you know, that the buckets you're talking about. And I got so sucked in that there was one night where I was like, my husband's in the other room. My puppies are there. They're all cuddling. And I'm missing out because I think this can't get done tomorrow. And I've talked on podcasts about this, like, what are we gonna remember in our deathbeds? Are we gonna remember, I mean, yeah, know, what you're doing is amazing. What I'm hoping to do hopefully takes off, but you know, are we really gonna care? Are we gonna care about the people that we loved and the relationships that we made and the people that we helped?
Devin Reed16:19.928
Yeah. And then, and unfortunately it takes usually like losing a loved one or seeing, you know, maybe secondhand of like, you have the re-realization that we have so much less time than we think we do. And we find ways to fill it up and we could blame, you know, I blame it usually between the culture and my own ambition, you know, so it's kind of the world we're in and I'm adding to it. and so it is a challenge to want to build something, right? podcast, business, any, anything that like you just care about. And also remember like, Hey, why am I doing this? I'm like, yeah, it's for those snuggles. Right. And I think the same thing when I see my wife, you know, sometimes I'll just see my wife and the girls they're in like, they look so cozy and they're chilling. They're watching a movie. And I'm like, why am I doing anything but that right now? That is literally heaven for me. Like, what am I doing? but you know what? Like you just have to remember, like we're not robots or human beings with old wiring. and just, you we're learning as we go. And it's like, you have to sometimes learn the hard way a couple of times. But ultimately it's like, yeah, I want to look back to your point on like deathbed is like, I want to look back and remember all the moments I made, not all the moments I missed.
Jolie Shapiro17:30.13
Ooh, another good quote. Loving these. I'm like, quote, quote, quote. I'm a writer too, actually. Started sort of writing when I was 11, started writing songs when I was a little girl.
Devin Reed17:36.846
I'll tell you. I love that. That's great. Songwriting is awesome. Great creative outlet.
Jolie Shapiro17:47.972
Yeah. Do you also play music?
Devin Reed17:52.14
You know what? I was not gifted musically. I can, I'm a novice beatboxer. I will not do it right now. That's my wife. She always wants me to beatbox for people. And I'm like, I so love that you think I'm really good at this. It's just, it's just not actually that good. And when you, and when, when non people outside of our duo hear it, they're not impressed. You know what I mean? But I do enjoy doing it. And my kids think I'm good at it. So that's usually why I stay there. But no, I don't play any instruments. just I mean, I love music and I you know, love different types and understanding it and lyrics and all that stuff. But no, never been never played. What about you? Do you sing and or play?
Jolie Shapiro18:34.002
I kind of play guitar, not really about like 10 chords and one strum, but I like to think. Well, I never was properly trained, but I can sing a pretty mean Valerie.
Devin Reed18:41.078
That that 10 strums are an accord more than me. I'm like, you're, yeah. Lovely. That's great. That's impressive.
Jolie Shapiro18:54.866
Yeah, it's fun. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it took some time. But let's keep going, or else we're going to be on for three hours and you're never going to do your exercise. Great. So around the same time, you launched a reader and saw six-figure revenue roll-in. At what point did the joy of creating flip toward fatigue?
Devin Reed19:00.461
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Jolie Shapiro19:22.192
And how did you draw a hard line to protect your wellbeing?
Devin Reed19:27.918
So when I started the reader actually. in 2019, no, I started, so you can start here. Well, if you cut anything or if you include all my, know, stumbles, can have those too. So I actually started the reader in 2017. And the reason being I was in sales trying to get into marketing and I had gone at a Vemprite all the way through the final interview for this marketing manager position and the like, head of editorial like was coaching me and she was super helpful and like, you know, cause I was, I knew nothing of marketing other than I'd like written some blogs and I thought I had what it took. And so anyway, I got to the very final interview and I did not get it. They passed me up for an external candidate. And so I had realized like if my current company isn't going to take a bet on a sales guy going into marketing, no other CMO is going to look at me in the pile of applications and be like, yeah, let's take a risk on this guy. So I started the reader as a, you know, just as a freelancing outlet so I could get experience. So the next time that I had an opportunity or an interview, I could show a body of work, have a couple clients, you know, as references and show that I'm legit. And so I had done it as a side gig for years until about the point you're mentioning, it was still a side gig, but had eventually scaled up from what started at $30 an hour to a six figure business. And so the reason of kind of your question of something to fatigue, like kind of basically enjoying it to go into fatigue, can you rephrase it for me and I'll pick it back up? Yeah, no. It was really well said.
Jolie Shapiro21:24.498
thank you. At what point did the joy of creating flip toward fatigue?
Devin Reed21:30.466
Yeah. Yeah. So to your point of the joy of creating it, anytime money is involved, things can lose focus. And the thing that makes a creative outlet great, the thing that makes a podcast great, an email series great is the real passion and love for creating what that thing is. And if you have that passion and you inject it freely and you have, you know, explore your creative freedom, then oftentimes it resonates at a level where people want to monetize it. So you've created so much value from your creativity that now you have more money and you have more temptation and you probably have more pressure. And so, yes, that's what happens around that point. Luckily, because it was a side gig still and I had a full-time job, it was kind of like, how big can I make this thing that will never have to be too big? Right? It's like always this little side compartment. But there was definitely times where I was like, maybe I actually don't want to do this. Like I don't want to do this type of task, but I said yes, because money was involved or I don't really like working with these people and advising, but they gave me money. And so that's when I started just to realize, hey, keep this thing pure. Love doing the work, love what you're building, and then the money will come versus feeling like you need to go, you know, because you hit 100K one year, you have to do it the next year.
Jolie Shapiro22:57.764
I love that. I'm definitely the same way. Throughout this podcast, I've talked to a of different revenue leaders and there's definitely a thread of a lot of founders following their passion. And it doesn't have to be saving the world, right? We're not curing cancer. We're not doing rocket science. I'm not even going to mention Elon, I'm that the editor cut me out. God. Anyways, you know, we're not saving the world, but we are making a difference. I think if you follow your passion, you are making a difference in someone's life. Now it's not. it's not reversing aging. But if you're having fun, I think, and you're also helping people in some sort of way, like you with educating people and taking that education background, the writing background, and really giving stuff away or giving your knowledge away for free. I mean, I know you're obviously monetizing it, but you're
Devin Reed23:51.992
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro24:16.55
giving, both, like you're giving away your knowledge and your knowledge is valuable and you're helping people. So it's, I think there's always a way.
Devin Reed24:26.892
Absolutely. Yeah. I think so too. And it's like, I don't, don't, I don't believe the kind of like, you know, for a career, follow your passion and all work out that kind of ignores like how the world works. You know, it's like, if passion was in a vacuum. Yeah, absolutely. Like I would also be on the golden state warriors starting, you know, shooting guard. but you know, jeans and the world decided that probably wouldn't be my path, but especially today. And I've actually thought of doing this like just for really just for fun? Like what if I was an ESPN announcer and I only covered the Warriors? Like there's nothing preventing me from just doing a video every day, you know, quick commentary, make some jokes, have fun because I love the Warriors and I love basketball and I love staying in the know and you know, getting a laugh. Like, so you can still do that. And guess what? If you're really good at it and enough people follow, then yeah, maybe that could be your full-time job. Like brands will pay you, you know, you get the idea. So I think there's obviously routes to it. And I'm really grateful that I was able to have the reader as a side gig versus jumping into entrepreneurship, maybe a little prematurely. And then you do feel the stress of, you know, financial needs and burdens and you take on clients, you maybe don't want to. And then your vision isn't what's realized, you know, you kind of built a business around a budget or, you know, around scarcity. So yeah, I think that's why it's doing well. And I still am so excited on a Friday afternoon. Like I'm having a great time with you. This was like a good break in my day, so to speak. And then I'm like, yeah, and I have like two hours before pool time with my kids to like crush some more business stuff. Like, you know, whatever those little projects are, I just nerd out and like that stuff.
Jolie Shapiro26:05.55
I'm a total nerd. It's so bad. I started a SoundCloud. I haven't posted yet, but I want to start recording. we'll see how that goes. I know. My dentist was like, that's how the best things happen. I'm like, thank you, dentist. mean, exactly. Like that girl, think that anxiety where she sang over the Goetje song, that became like number one in the country. I was like,
Devin Reed26:15.83
You should. Yeah, you never know. You never know until you go. Yes.
Jolie Shapiro26:34.928
That's so cool, go you. It's so good.
Devin Reed26:37.752
Think of that. Think of how, I agree, and I'm adding, imagine taking that beat, like, cause that song is super famous and a like timeless classic now. Like it is an amazing original. Imagine being like, yeah, I'm gonna take that song and I'll just make it better. Or even just to be like, I'll make it my own and good enough that I don't get ridiculed widely. Because when I heard the, I didn't actually know the artist, I had heard of her, but I hadn't heard her. and someone put it on and heard, they're like, have to listen to this song. And I heard the music first. I was immediately like defensive. I was like, who is this that she thinks she can jump on this track? And then I suspended my disbelief and listened and was glad I did because she absolutely 10 out of 10, if you're gonna remake that song, like, I don't know. Now I'm like, who could beat her in remaking, you know what I mean, a third version. So anyway, I ramble cause it's great. And I love the original.
Jolie Shapiro27:29.968
good. it's all good. Nevermind. I should put it on my head of Fast and the Furious. Fast and Furious, there's like 10, I think about like, yeah, I think of like 500 years from now, the only thing that's like, you know, how cockroaches survive anything, it's just gonna be Fast and Furious.
Devin Reed27:37.282
What about him? No, because there's like ten of them. Yeah, yeah. It'll be cockroaches driving cars in Fast and Furious. That'll be the next generation.
Jolie Shapiro27:53.089
I love that. Humans will be gone, but we'll have that. Oh my God. Okay, back to the question server we derail. Oh, do you have a hard stop by the way? Just want to make sure you're.
Devin Reed27:58.99
We'll have Tokyo Drift with cockroaches. I have the time until we do we book until two?
Jolie Shapiro28:14.566
Oh, you're east coast, west coast. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to make sure I don't ask all these for those. going to, we'll go past two. Oh, okay. Cool. Let me just, I'm going to take a quick little break and just see which questions I want to ask because I want to make sure we have some time for back and forth.
Devin Reed28:18.03
Is that whatever our inbox says? No, but I rebooked until 145 or two. Yeah, yeah, then I'm good till two. Sure.
Jolie Shapiro28:42.844
That's a good one. Ooh, I'm like judging my own questions. It's so bad. Okay, not that one. Okay, what did you mean by pool time?
Devin Reed29:03.678
we, are renting a house right now in San Diego that has a pool. And so, yeah, so every Friday we do family poker night and we host. So I tell the kids pool at four dinner at six poker at seven. And my wife has like 20 family members in this area. And so at least 10 will show up and we'll eat and play poker.
Jolie Shapiro29:07.856
Mm-hmm. fun. That's amazing. That is so cute.
Devin Reed29:30.766
It is. It's a great little family tradition. And so, yes, that's how I spend my Fridays.
Jolie Shapiro29:39.154
All right, yeah, I got to get you out of here. I narrate three questions. OK, cool. All right, sweet. All right, so shifting gears a little bit. Your mantra is show, don't tell. Help and entertain, not just sell. How do you extend that same compassion inward when you hit a creative block? Excuse me, going ask that again. Your mantra is show, don't tell.
Devin Reed29:42.8
you're good. I've got time. You're okay. I've got till two.
Jolie Shapiro30:08.466
help and entertain, not just sell. How do you extend that same compassion inward when you hit a creative block rather than pushing yourself harder?
Devin Reed30:21.976
Well, let me say that, well, let me start by saying that self-compassion has never been a strong quality of mine. I have until probably six to 12 months ago began the journey of learning genuinely how to love myself. And that might sound silly to some people or that might sound exactly like what you're going through, dear listener. But growing up, I was always my worst critic. And I kind of talked about that a little bit before, you know, feeling, when you feel like you're not enough, you tell yourself you're not. and then you look for external validation that you were right. So when I think about self-compassion, I have to remind myself that people want you to succeed. People have much less expectations for you than you do for yourself. And people don't love you for what you are or what you achieved. They love you for who you are and just want you to be there. And that's what I have to work on. I have to work on not trying so hard and just remembering my girls, my wife, that's my pod right now. And all they really want is my time. I don't care what we're doing, if we do nothing, that's all it is. And so to accept that that is enough is what I'm working on right now. And just finding relief and freedom in there is so much less expectation on myself than I've led myself to believe. until this point. And that's when I feel light and I feel free and I feel loved. And those are kind of that's the state of being that I'm constantly trying to stay in and and catch myself when I when I leave and those, you know, that internal talk kind of returns because that old wiring is very strong and it has a grip and it doesn't want to go away easily. And so that is when, you know, if I ever say, you know, I'm kind of going through a lot right now. That's what I'm going through. There's nothing really even externally usually, at least as of late. It's like that internal battle of finding and believing in that self-worth when sometimes you'll wake up and you're your biggest fan and sometimes you wake up and you're your worst critic. And it's like, can you be aware of that today? Can you course correct and have a great day? Cause you know, you got people counting on you and even more importantly, you deserve to wake up feeling like you are enough.
Jolie Shapiro32:55.772
That was beautiful. That gave me goosebumps. I'm not even like kidding.
Devin Reed33:02.932
I hope I hope it I'm glad it resonated because like I said, I don't share this stuff very often. You know outside of my wife and journal. So you led the way for me to share. So I appreciate.
Jolie Shapiro33:16.208
Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for opening up. was, me goose bumps because I definitely am very much the same way. very, I'm so, I have been so hard on myself. I mean, I think I had to do this since 11 would wake up at four and study. I was like a pretty big nerd.
Devin Reed33:42.616
Nerds are the best by the way though. Nerd, by the way, being a nerd is so cool as an adult because it's like, you have a passion and you are super into it and you're knowledgeable about it. I think that's the coolest thing as an adult because it kind of gets beaten out of you or we think we have to conform and it's like, no, don't let me study it for because no one else studies it for. But really there's other people studying it for that if you can just find them, you have best friends for life. Not to interrupt. Wanted to validate you.
Jolie Shapiro33:46.674
It is. There you go. I love that. Thank you. I really like that. Yeah. That's awesome. I talked about this, think, with Leslie Benets. You may have been on her. She's a sales. Yeah, cool. Yeah. I don't know if my editor cut this out. He might have. And he might cut it out again to protect me. But I'm going through a
Devin Reed34:26.21
Yeah, I do. do.
Jolie Shapiro34:39.174
wait, no, no, we didn't cut out. I am going through a program right now. So I've been sober for, it'll be four years in December. Thank you. Yeah. So I'm going through a different program. know, the whole cross addiction thing. It's real fun. Not drugs, just food. it's changed my life. Actually, my husband just told me, he said, I've never seen you so happy in the past few weeks than in the past three years.
Devin Reed34:57.774
Sure. Sure.
Jolie Shapiro35:08.784
Because it's like, thank you. Yeah, it's just this release of you get to feel again. Like we're so afraid to feel. Yeah, so I really appreciate you opening up like that. I know that's not easy.
Devin Reed35:09.294
It's a novel. Well, you're welcome and likewise, because I mean, that's such an accomplishment to get to four years sober for any type of challenge, addiction, whatever folks are going through. But I commend you for facing that because so many people never become aware of that problem and never take the step of saying, hey, you know what? The pain of staying the same is worse. you know, than the pain of change. And so good, good for you. I hope you feel very proud. And I know that feeling of your partner being like, Hey, I see my wife tees me. She goes, so Stella has her groove back today. That's what my wife will say to me when I'm feeling saucy and she's like, you're out of your fog. And I'm like, yeah, but don't tell me I'm happy again. I'll tell you I'm happy again, you know, but yeah, she's
Jolie Shapiro36:11.11
That's adorable. Yeah, my husband will be like, you're back, huh? Yeah, it's like the snarky scale like the snarkier we are and the sassy we are the better we're feeling.
Devin Reed36:17.812
Mm-hmm. Yeah, he sees it too. He sees it too. Yes, because the safer we're feeling. that beautiful?
Jolie Shapiro36:30.254
it. It's awesome. Couple more questions. Actually, I really like this one. No, I'm just gonna ask this last one. I don't like that one. Yeah, so just last question. mean, a lot of people know where to find you. But we'd love to give you give you a chance to have I can't speak. my god. Hold on. This is this is what happens when I have a giant jug of coffee. I like to start I just start like, okay. So last question.
Devin Reed36:53.222
Yeah Yeah, have a time.
Jolie Shapiro37:01.114
If you could slip a note to yourself one day at Gong, terrified English major facing enterprise quotas, what pep talk would you give about mental resilience?
Devin Reed37:19.726
The note would say, trust yourself, it's all going to work out, parentheses, even better than you expected.
Jolie Shapiro37:29.978
And death to truth.
Devin Reed37:32.974
It usually is. We always, we have such bleak outlook for how good life is. If you're listening to this podcast, you have probably an amazing life.
Jolie Shapiro37:33.19
Well... Yeah, yeah. Well, I know you're on LinkedIn, but anything you want to share where people can connect with you, have questions about this or anything like that.
Devin Reed37:51.702
Yeah, absolutely. Couple ways. You can follow me on LinkedIn. I have a newsletter called The Reader. It's just a weekly newsletter. It is about marketing, but I do talk about personal stuff like this sometimes. And then I have a show called Read Between the Lines on YouTube and Spotify and Apple. Read R-E-E-D because I told you I'm a dad and dad puns and it was just right there for the taking. I took.
Jolie Shapiro38:18.908
That's great. I may or may not have this in the show, but my mom said, wow, you made your dad really proud. You made a corny dad joke. I was like, what? Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Devin, for being on the show. Really, really appreciate it.
Devin Reed38:29.365
Hahaha. Of course, thank you. had a great time.