Jolie Shapiro00:01.443
Hello everyone, welcome to Revenue Mind, a podcast where revenue leaders talk all things mental health. I'm Jill, your host and with us is Megan. Hey, Megan.
Meghann Misiak00:09.72
Hi there.
Jolie Shapiro00:11.449
So good to have you. I knew we were chatting right before this, super excited to quote unquote meet you even though you're a face on a screen, but close enough.
Meghann Misiak00:24.053
I honestly feel in 2025, especially since 2020 realistically, when so many of us were scattered all over the world. I remember when it was weird to me that I would meet these amazing people on LinkedIn and feel so connected to them. I mean, I have friends. of my best friends is Leslie Vinnettes and I met her through LinkedIn. I've met her in person several times now, but You have these deep friendships, so it's great meeting you and putting a face to the name.
Jolie Shapiro00:55.649
Yeah, you too. Leslie's awesome. She was such a, when I interviewed her, I was like, you're such a badass. my God. Yeah, she really is. I can definitely see where you guys are friends and that is a compliment.
Meghann Misiak00:58.35
You She's like absolutely badass. Yeah, all of our LinkedIn friends, the best.
Jolie Shapiro01:15.457
Of course. Cool. So I typically start with, and I think you're going to have an interesting answer to this. What makes you you?
Meghann Misiak01:26.318
Ooh, so that's actually a really beautiful question because I started working with a branding coach earlier this year. I share a lot about it on my LinkedIn and I post a lot about burnout. I post a lot about what I thought made me me, which was, I would say prior to hitting burnout was I was a hard worker. I'd work harder than anyone else. I think I could tell you a lot of things like, I see patterns really easily that other people don't see. But after working with a braining coach, he was like, why Meg, you, you read tarot, you're so cool and you don't see any of that on your LinkedIn. So I started calling myself that sales witch on LinkedIn, almost a year ago. And I felt when he, when he suggested that I was like, you're so silly. I am not doing that. Like, absolutely not. But yeah, I dyed my hair purple and call myself that sales witch. And I post regularly about, yes, like the journey with healing and spirituality and how it impacts my sales. And just being able to show that side of it, ironically, like that part of me that I was hiding previously, I would answer now today is truly what makes me me. I think also just having like such deep intuition. like connection to my body, connection to my, and like also all of the pain and all of the feelings that a lot of us suppress has actually made me a lot better salesperson, a lot better coach, a lot better, I think like friend, person to be around. And I think ironically it's what people recognize most about me now.
Jolie Shapiro03:18.209
I love that. Quick question, how did you get to the sales witch? I'm so interested. I know you work with the branding coach, but like how did you arrive at that?
Meghann Misiak03:30.348
Yeah. So long story short, I have been in sales since I was 16 years old. My very first job was, yeah, I lived in, St. Augustine, Florida. It's a very small beach town and I was deciding what I wanted to have as a high school job. And I really just wanted discounts on bathing suits. So I worked at a bathing suit store and it was really cool because for the women that are listening, a lot of times I like, we don't always have bodies that just fit like a medium and a medium, you know, bottom and top pair. So I worked at a specialty suit shop that worked with, like different body types. And it was amazing sales experience because I learned that you have like five bathing suits that women will try on before tears might be involved. So, you you talk about like losing a deal or like buyers, like not wanting to move forward. If you add tears, it's a lot more high pressure. And so I worked as a, I've worked in a lot of different types of sales. worked as a leasing agent, paying my way through college. I worked in retail for years. Then I got into tech after college. I was like, okay, I have a sociology degree. I don't really want to become a sociologist. I'm done with the research, but I like bring that every day to what I do in sales. So I started in payroll sales. I have actually have a lot of clients in payroll right now, but I. was okay in sales, but I'm like not okay being okay. So I actually invested in my own training. went to Sandler sales training. Shout out to my amazing trainers, but I worked with them for two years. Like the very first year I went from being a mediocre salesperson to being high, like top performance. went to president's club, et cetera. Good news, I like drove a ton more revenue for the. organization, bad news, I fell in love with the training side. So I was interviewing in New York City because I was looking to make a move and was interviewing for sales roles. One of the companies was like, hey, we actually see you have some training experience. Would you want to do training full time? I'm like, what? That's a role? What? So yeah, I've been in... Since then I've been an inside trainer. So like kind of like the first person that people hire in terms of like building out their training team, usually when they want to go from, okay, we're seeing good results, but we want to really level up. So like we want to bring in, you know, some of the best frameworks. We want to incorporate onboarding. We want to level up every single seller. And then I was able to start my own company. And what I did was, I honestly took just like the easiest thing to sell, was medic training. So I was a medic trainer for years and now I'm actually transitioning even more so into coaching top salespeople through the same journey that I've had, which is helping them realize like, okay, I'm at top levels of performance. Why don't I feel fulfilled or like, when is it going to get easier? Because I don't think that I could keep doing this level of work. for longer and like, you kind of see those rewards diminishing where it's like, I'm doing the same amount of work, but it's just not working as well anymore. So I'm super passionate about that side of it. And really just helping the people and teams find, yes, incredible results. I actually have very strong opinions that selling from a more secure, regulated space allows more, like better results. but also helping people find more fulfillment, better working relationships with their teams, more sustainability as well, which I think should be a topic that more teams talk about, but I think it's a lot easier to add activity than strategy.
Jolie Shapiro07:30.425
yeah, for sure. that's first off, that's amazing. I love that. And I keep looking at all your earrings and your hair. So I'm like, I have a little bit ADHD. So I'm like, I love what she's talking about. But I'm also looking at all of the things that all the things I want to all the things I just want to steal like half your jewelry. I'm totally half kidding. Like, my. Thank you.
Meghann Misiak07:34.508
It's fun. distracted by all of the fun! No, like, no, I accept fully that compliment. It's very funny.
Jolie Shapiro07:57.242
Also, um, no, something that you said stuck with me. Well, a lot of things you said, one things that you said stuck with me was that it's okay not to be okay. And I hope, or you said something along those lines and paraphrasing, but, um, I truly wholeheartedly agree with that. And you also mentioned that a lot of us suppress our, you know, our trauma, our pain, our insert here and I think it becomes the never enough mentality. Like it's never going to be good enough because at least for me, I push myself to the point because I didn't want to think about anything. Like I didn't want to think about the pain, the trauma, the whatever was happening in my life. So I just worked, worked, worked, worked, worked until I broke. So I, I feel that.
Meghann Misiak08:51.158
Yeah, and it's actually really interesting because when I use the words burnout in my content, it doesn't usually resonate with people before that breaking point. And I see there people like, I'm not burnt out. I'm totally fine. I'm like, okay, cool. sure. and of course some people aren't burnt out, but I did not think that I was burning out until I hit it. And it was like a moment. I'll talk about that in a moment, but like, the people that do resonate with burnout are the people who've had those breaking points, you know? And for me, what that looked like, I thought that I knew what burnout was. I think that I thought that it was just like feeling really exhausted for months. And when you talk to people who have like truly hit burnout, not just approached it, for me, it was... Literally a moment. I'm remembering the exact moment where I was I was in my bedroom and I was about to turn off the lights to just take a nap because I I like did not take naps. So I'm not like a I was not a napper, but I was like I was so Overwhelmed that I just like was about to turn off the light and it was like I my brain shut down But like my brain turned off the light Everything all the concerns all the worries all the stress all of the anxieties all of the ambitions drained and it was like my mind felt clear in a weird way, but it also, I remember telling one of them, the coaches I was working with at the point, she was actually just a friend, not a coach yet. So was not investing in myself. I did everything myself, but I told her, I was like, feel like I'm at the bottom of the ocean with the entire weight of the world on top of me and everything, every, even like. time seemed to be moving slower. I couldn't see clearly. Everything was just like, I was like opening my eyes underwater. Even like noises and everything were just muted. And I had to take time off of work. I had to like take a leave of absence. I, um, and they understood. I was like, Hey, I'm burned out. And they're like, girl, take time off. And like, that was a red flag. Even, you know, like they're seeing something that I wasn't, but Yeah, it was really devastating. And I know you have your own story. Like, what did it look like for you that moment?
Jolie Shapiro11:21.315
appreciate asking me a question. I know that sounds horrible. Like, wait, I wasn't prepared for a question. It's like, wow, someone's actually asking me a question. Well, I know that it's actually not the guest's fault. It's because I know actually know clots over and I had a very nice back and forth. But yeah.
Meghann Misiak11:24.032
of course. My goodness! Wow! Wait on that. I actually just had another podcast recording earlier today and she, was like, this is weird because she wasn't, she was just asking me questions and like allowing me to speak a lot. And I was like, wow, this, what is weird about this podcast? It was actually because I was like, this is one of the first podcasts where someone isn't constantly interrupting me speaking over me. And I'm like,
Jolie Shapiro11:50.205
huh. Mm. Yes.
Meghann Misiak12:15.216
wow. And, and I asked her, like, Hey, I hope that I did. We did have some back and forth, but she was like, my, podcast listeners, like hear me all of the time. But I was like, thank you for just creating space for us to have like a conversation. It felt very different. So.
Jolie Shapiro12:24.154
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, she's so freaking cool. I was like, you're my new superhero. Yeah, yeah, no, I know. So that was was me deflecting, like, totally stalling right there. I was like, no, but I and also since I do love I do love giving everyone space to tell their story. It's not. It's definitely not the Jolie show. So I guess my story.
Meghann Misiak12:38.83
Yeah, but I would love to hear your experience with Rinala. Yeah. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro13:00.878
I had this whole solo episode about this. It's always tightness in my chest. It's always like this. And I really resonated with you when you've said it was almost like everything froze. That reminded me of, I forget, always screw it up. Analysis, paralysis, paralysis, analysis. It's one of the two.
Meghann Misiak13:01.122
or like what did burnout feel like for you? Oof. Yeah. analysis for this, think.
Jolie Shapiro13:27.204
Thank you. always, I always, I can never remember. Yeah. But like I tend to, I just, yeah, I like, kind of do the same thing. I, I kind of freeze and I'm like, holy shit. have a lot going on. Like when I start, when I start just kind of like I'm open about it. Like I'm in therapy and stuff. And when I started listing all the things that I'm doing, I'm like,
Meghann Misiak13:40.813
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro13:58.283
or, you know, experiencing more experiencing than doing. I'm like, holy shit, I'm surprised I'm still standing. It's just, it's crazy. But I think what I learned with burnout is to not have in a weird way, like lowering expectations, but also raising your expectations with how you treat yourself, I think is how I would put it.
Meghann Misiak14:07.438
Yeah. Yeah, and honestly, like how we treat ourselves is so interesting because I think in tech, it's a lot of very toxic behaviors are extremely normalized or glorified, such as like complete sacrifice of everything in your life, know, personal life, boundaries, even just like time, like people treat like, like act like they own your time and You also have to sacrifice your focus. People are like, I saw that you have two hours free today. I was like, no, those are not free hours. Those are deep work hours. There's a difference. But I think it's also really interesting. A lot of people are just so disconnected from it. We're so disconnected from our bodies. Can I play two things back to you from what you shared? So you said that you feel it in your chest, like a tightening here. Do you feel anywhere else in your body when you overwhelmed, burnout, et cetera?
Jolie Shapiro15:28.186
I do have TMJ, but I've had that since I was 16. So that's that's like a whole nother can of worms like right here. So it's it's definitely my jaw.
Meghann Misiak15:36.566
Yeah. So maybe even like a tightening like with your, so like Josh. Yeah. So it's actually really interesting. when you study even like somatic processing and, I, I work a lot with the chakra system, even, I, I am launching a new offering, which is aura photography. we actually use, put your hands on sensors, it captures, biometric data and then turns that into a, a visual.
Jolie Shapiro15:41.523
Tidying my jaw and shedding my chest, yeah.
Meghann Misiak16:06.99
So it turns it into a visual with colors and it's actually mapped to the chakra system. But how everyone can use that, like kind of a fun intro question I use for people is like, where do you feel it in your body when you're stressed? Because I would say like most of the time it's two, actually probably three places. So in your chest area, this is your heart chakra. And if you feel constant, this can, a lot of people feel like, in their shoulders like tightness or like clenching If you have to get massages all the time like weekly like I did and I was like, I'm just having shoulder issues well, maybe it's because You're holding tension aka stress in that area and by knowing where it's really interesting So like your heart chakra can be related to feelings of self-worth So for example, I noticed that I would tense up every, when I started my company, would tense up every time a client would email me. I had this extreme weird thing. I was like, they're going to be asking for their money back. They're going to be angry. They're going to be this, they're going to be that. And it was all that self-worth. was like, I don't feel worthy. I feel scared. I feel like I'm not good enough. And that can like actually translate into very physical issues. Even jaw issues or throat issues can relate to, your throat chocolate, which is like, if you feel like you haven't been able to speak up or speak how you feel, if you suppressing things, you're like, I want to, I want to say this, but I don't feel confident enough. Or I don't feel like I have the space to, with maybe people at your company or, know, like, I don't feel safe enough to speak out. That can really translate into like, know, tightness in the jaw, things like that. And I would say another very common one for people are like digestive issues, tummy issues. Yeah, and so that can also be really related to your sacral chakra, which is, is a place of like creativity and sexual power. I don't mean that. We don't need to bring it, you know, don't call HR. But overall, that can also be related to how powerful do you feel and how, even in your womb, what are you birthing? What are you expressing out into the world? What are you creating? And if you feel like your creativity is suppressed, if you feel like, what am I even doing here? That can actually also create digest, or even feelings of... Do other people like me? Do I feel safe enough? Do I feel not even like the self-worth, but more around like external validation and like connection with other people? And so it's really interesting to see where those energetic things show up in our bodies and what that can tell us about our levels of stress and also like the roots of stress.
Jolie Shapiro19:15.908
is so interesting. never I mean, I've always heard about chakras, but I never really knew like the background or the thank you for explaining that. How did you get into that?
Meghann Misiak19:18.497
and Yeah, so I mean, have a, am in, when I was living in New York City, I was starting to get into some of this stuff. I've read Tarot for about 15 years, which I think is actually a really, people think that Tarot is like very woo woo or like reading the future. It's not, it's actually just a set of archetypes. Tarot, even I had someone who was like, I can't believe that you read Tarot at your boyfriend's bar. Like it's supposed to be a sacred. ritual and I was like, okay, well actually my boyfriend is Italian and tarot was created as a card game for the Italian aristocracy to be played at parties. So honestly, I am absolutely honoring the roots of like sacred Italian parties by reading it at my boyfriend's Italian bar. So, but overall, I started getting into tarot and like, it really helped me because I could kind of just see like, it's essentially the human experience. even for example, when I'm like, I think sometimes we treat our growth path as very linear. It's very masculine. Also our society is masculine. So it makes sense, but like, we treat ourselves like if I dip here or like pivot or like have to start over, I'm failing. And the terror is really interesting because... Death is actually, so the death card, everyone's afraid of death. Like, my God, I'm going to die. No, I pulled the death card as my card of the year one year. And it basically that year I quit my job and started a company. I left New York city and started traveling the world and then ended up in Mexico city, which was one of my goals living abroad since I was a little girl. I ended a six year relationship that was not working. I ended up. you know, being single for two years, healing my soul and then finding now my soulmate. And so I think like, it's really taught me that even like these big endings are more cyclical. It's like one door closes so that bigger, more beautiful doors can open. but when it comes to the inner, the energy, tarot is very mental. really struggled until I burned out and realized I had been dissociating for two, like for two decades. So I started like coming back into my body. And, you know, honestly, I did a lot of like, I mean, I talk about the psychedelics on my LinkedIn psychedelics were a really big help. And I think a lot of, I mean, like real a lot of tech people are very interested in openness psychedelics. But those are also very mental. So I started working with somatic therapy, but there's actually a book called Anatomy of Spirit, which also is like a very big gateway for me, which actually just maps. how can we understand what we feel in our body and how that can be a mirror to what's happening in our soul? And it's hard because so many of us in tech are taught to dissociate from pain, to dissociate from any sense of like our bodies. It's like no pain, no gain. And I need to hustle harder. I just need to like work harder to show I'm committed and to like, if I wanna... achieve these massive things, I need to push my body to the extremes. And I broke, I mean, I hear stories every day, people who like ended up in the hospital from burnout. And ironic when you actually study burnout, it can take you three to five years to recover. By the way, I'm on year five and I actually, I was like, no, I think I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. No, it has taken five years to fully recover and to like truly transform the way that I worked. I'm actually grateful for burning out. because I don't think that I would have changed if I had not had such a radical breakdown. Like it's led to some of the biggest breakthroughs in my entire life, but I can completely see this like alternate universe where I just continue killing myself and crushing my soul and defining myself and my identity by how many hours I worked, how many promotions I got, how many... zeros were in my paycheck, how many, you know, how many like big names were in front of my title, you know, director, VP, president, you know. So I'm grateful for that. But yeah, it was like, people are always like, wow, like, how'd you get into this? And I was like, yeah, like total breakdown, total burnout. And then just like, I did not have an option.
Jolie Shapiro24:15.552
And honestly, that's truly honest. a lot of, mean, LinkedIn, I mean, we're both on it quite a bit. know, we do. I scheduled my posts. I stopped scrolling because I started doom scrolling, especially when there was like.
Meghann Misiak24:28.622
Yeah, we both live on it. Mm-hmm. yeah.
Jolie Shapiro24:40.506
Oh, it was my version of doing scrolling. I deleted Facebook and Instagram, then I saw like, there was a period of time where, just circling back to what you said, like there was a period of time where everyone was like, oh, I built this startup and I made a hundred million dollars and I exited and da da da da da da. And I'm over, yeah, in a year or this person's funding me now at first it didn't look at me, but now look at me now or look at me now. And I'm kind of like,
Meghann Misiak24:59.147
in like a year.
Jolie Shapiro25:09.69
I'm over here in a partial hospitalization program getting treated for an eating disorder. I don't know. look at this right now. I don't. But to your point, everyone goes through different shit. No one's stuff is worse than someone else. I definitely think it's about Like, I get looked at like, oh, like I even have posts about this. Like, she has her shit together. I did a lot of fucking work to get there. I literally had to rewire my brain. it's intense.
Meghann Misiak25:47.309
Yeah. But bringing it full circle to what you said earlier, it's okay to not be okay. I think this goes so much deeper in, in SaaS cultures because for example, one of the big challenges. So I feel like there's like in, as a tech consultant in sales or like, especially in like sales training, there's a really like two big types of trainers. prospecting and mid funnel, right? You're either like helping people get leads or you're helping them win them. Those are honestly the two jobs in sales. And it's hard because in pro if you're a prospecting trainer, it's a little easier for people to be like, Hey, we just don't have enough leads. We just need to get more leads, you know? And like, they're kind of like, okay, it's easy to admit that like, okay, our messaging kind of sucks. Like we might not have the right systems in place. Deliverability is an issue. We can fix that easily. And our messaging just like, yeah, we're open to better messaging, right? But for mid funnel, it's a little harder because I think that like tech is not always the most vulnerable or safe space. And it's really hard because like with prospecting, like, Hey, I just like, don't have enough quality leads. But once you explore what's wrong with sales. in the middle and I can be very vulnerable because, you know, sometimes I have to tell people, so, your entire pipeline, probably 60 % of it is garbage. And like, that is really hard, you know? And so it's like, I feel like a lot of people put these just like, let's just do a training. Let's just do a training. Let's just do a training instead of like being really open and honest. And I'm talking about kind of a mic. a macro leadership perspective from an executive perspective. It can be really challenging, especially there's so much pressure on executives. They have, they don't have that much time, literally from an average tenure perspective to fix things, you know? So it's really easy to kind of like, let's just do a training. Let's just like fix this one little thing when it's like the deep systemic thing is that you're not honest with yourself. But even on a micro scale, one of the biggest things I hear from salespeople is like, especially top performers is that they're not getting any feedback. So it's like, how can you know how to grow? How do you know how to improve when you're asking, hey, I want to be better. But most of the time, I'm sure you've heard this a million times in your career, don't worry. You're doing fine. Just keep doing what you're doing. And you're like, okay, cool. how is that helping me get better? Just do more of what you're already doing. And especially as a top performer, because at that point you might have actually outgrown your manager and how they, you might know better than them. You know, so it's, it's really challenging when like, it's okay to not be okay. just like the level of transparency and like safe spaces for transparency are so lacking that a lot of people don't know how to grow. And especially when you. Yeah, the weird thing for me is that when people are like, we're doing pretty well. These are like best practices in place. And I was like, okay, well, you're the average win rate in sass is actually like 21%. So if you're, if you're calling that like a best practice, then like, I don't, I don't know, tell you, know, like usually like doing well. like even doing better than okay is like a 30 % win rate. And I'm like, okay, so you're, you're okay losing 70 % of the deals that you're working on. Right. And I think like being okay with not being okay, like we need to, we need to talk about this at a, an industry level. You know, are we okay losing 80 % of our deals and like calling that good. And then having like, I want to be better or like, this is a best practice is just being like a little bit better. You know, But I think in order to do that, we have to be vulnerable. We have to be open to feedback. We have to like really be honest with ourselves. And we need to have conversations that, that don't just kind of say, oh yeah, we're doing really well. We're like executing all our projects, da, da, da, da, da. But we need to just be okay. Like with the shadow, it's almost like the shadow, like the negative aspects of like, what's not working. And just being like brutally honest. Do you see a lot of that?
Jolie Shapiro30:43.98
for sure. My gosh. I'm losing my voice. One second.
Meghann Misiak30:50.057
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro30:53.157
Thank God have an editor. He's great. No, he's amazing. He hears me compliment him all the time and he's like, cut. But sorry, what was your question at 8HG?
Meghann Misiak30:55.47
I'm sorry. Yeah, I love. so I was curious, like, if you see this, if you see just kind of almost sometimes like an echo chamber where we're not really honest with ourselves, and it's really impacting, like, I think people are like, Am I crazy? Am I the only one that feels like this isn't good enough for like that? I'm you know, that I could improve, but I'm not getting any feedback. And like, I think a lot of people are okay with being okay, but they're calling it excellent because as an industry, we are okay with being okay.
Jolie Shapiro31:40.859
Yeah, I have. So I started this podcast about a year and a half ago in April, child 24. And Almost not, not every single leader, but most essentially relic. mean, cause you going back, you know, to that LinkedIn veneer, I heard stories about people go to mental hospitals, losing children, having stillbirths, almost losing their wives. Like, I mean, some real serious shit, you know, opening up about therapy, mental illness. sorry. Go ahead.
Meghann Misiak31:56.654
Mm-hmm. The stuff that you don't see on LinkedIn very often.
Jolie Shapiro32:22.561
Yeah, yeah. And to your point, like, they had to put on a face because they were the they were their clients, or they were the CEO of X company, or they had a big presentation or like a keynote speech, and they just had to, you know, like put on the face. And I don't think that's, I think our society normalizes that. It's like you can be crying outside because you had, you know, you entered a six year relationship and then you go inside and you're like, you know, hi. I mean, it's terrible. It's terrible that we have to do that.
Meghann Misiak33:06.432
Yeah, and I think that sometimes it's required. I, as you were talking, I was like, okay, Q, Taylor Swift, I can do it with a broken heart. Sometimes it's required. Sometimes you have to push through it. But what I see as the bigger issue, and like, to be fair, I mean, I can also argue a million times, I were like, we should my gosh, I mean, I love the subreddit LinkedIn lunatics and like it is my dream one day to end up on it. I keep trying, but that is my 2010, 26 goal is to like end up on LinkedIn lunatics. But you see posts like I took a client. This is a real post I saw. I took a client call from the hospital after like an hour after giving birth and I'm like, wait, what? Is this what we are normalizing and glorifying? Like this is insane. and I think that like, there's all these, you know, very big examples, but for me, it was a slippery slope of like, justifying it one time and being like, okay, like sometimes it's required, you know, I, I have a big deal and I it's just, I just need to do this one call, but then it starts, it's two calls. And it's, it's not, you know, it's actually then kind of like working through a vacation and feeling like you can't, you have to be on Slack and, then realizing that you're basically just working from a remote location. And like, if you, did that for a year and like, that was great. But if you're not, if you're actually, you know, trying to be on vacation. These things are like really build up and can become so toxic with like incredibly real and severe consequences that can impact our bodies, our careers for years. And so I think like a lot of people have those moments where they make the exception and then it just becomes the norm. And we literally are giving ourselves no time to rest and recover. And we're glorifying that as like working through the pain and being committed, but we're also ignoring like basic health, basic psychology. we're ironically like the age of AI. I love AI. I was just speaking on a podcast about how like, think that, you know, the best sellers are going to be the ones that embrace AI. However, the issue is that we are treating our
Jolie Shapiro35:30.479
Basic humanity. Yep.
Meghann Misiak35:48.13
bodies like robots and our bodies literally cannot keep up and cannot act like robots. and if we're, I feel like the irony is that we're, a lot of times we do it because like, I just want to like, I just want to get to the next promotion as quickly as possible. But we're not realizing that if we do burn out, can literally cost us three to five years in productivity and mental health. all of this money spent, you know, and like ironically can actually severely impact our careers in a very negative way and our health. I mean, I've heard of people in their thirties having heart attacks, going to the hospital from burnout. So, and those are severe examples, but even for me, I didn't have that. But it, like I could not focus. I had like, even when I would try to push myself to work harder, I would have this flair of stress in my shoulders. Like my body was like screaming like, please, no, I can't do this again, you know? So like people don't talk about that. People don't talk about they're like, yeah, I like burned out, whatever. And I'm like, okay, cool. But like, it's a years long process. And if you're trying to actually achieve sustainable results and like to get ahead in your career, the... ironic part is that the best way to do that is to actually focus on sustainability, on regulation, on rest. And it is easy for people to like look at certain people's lives on LinkedIn and like, even for me like, you live in Mexico, you own your own company, you're in your 30s, wow. And to be like, wow, you have so much control, you don't have to like work, you know, a million hours per week. And to be fair, I Like I this is also what a lot of people don't talk about is that like I did gain so much from those years of like being a hustler, but now I've realized like I'm addicted to healthy hustle now and finding like realizing that like you can still hustle, but you can do it in a more sustainable way. I'm not saying that you have to like move to Bali and like quit corporate jobs completely. I did used to dream about that. was like, whenever I would get really stressed, was like, I'm just going to move to Bali and become a yoga instructor, even though I did not have a regular yoga practice. Like I think that also is a sign for me when I'm like dreaming of like radically changing my life. I'm like, okay, maybe you need to like take a nap. But you can still hustle, but in a much more healthy and holistic way.
Jolie Shapiro38:35.131
Yeah, I agree with that. Can you give me an example of a non-Bali yoga instructor experience of healthy hustle?
Meghann Misiak38:42.35
Yes. So a lot of the work that I do with my salespeople, it actually is kind of three levels because a lot of people come to me and they're like, okay, I would like to, I would like to, you know, know how to build better business cases. I'm like, love that. I love, I love a business case refresh. I love prospecting messaging and helping people sound more human. but a lot of the work that I do with people that radically shifts, not only like one experience, like, I'm to make this cold call better, but truly shapes who they are, how they work, et cetera. It starts at a much higher level. It actually starts with your intention. And so even like right now is a really good time for this. So instead of just focusing on like, okay, I want to get better at sales and like make my job easier. I'm going to go buy this business case template. You know, it has to be bigger than that. So for me, I start with intentions and I'm like holding my hand over my head because I'm like, it really starts with even like your mind and your spirit. And so even like a tactical exercise, was like, okay, how do you want to operate next year? And I actually do this exercise with my reps, especially right now where I'm like, okay, like what's working, what's not working? How do you want to show up? What is like important to you? What are your values that you want to bring into the next year? And so even one of my clients, is, he's in enterprise sales, but he, he kind of has had a very similar journey to ours. Or he's like, I've realized that like what got me here was hustle and it might not be. the answer moving ahead. And so I was like, okay, are you ready to like release that like hustle mindset? Maybe we can go into something like an archetype more like the sage who's like very focused on wisdom. And he's like, honestly, I don't, don't think I'm ready to give that up. So I was like, okay, cool. Let's cause he has a little bit more of a hero archetype where he like busts down doors, he gets shit done for his family, for his friends, for his clients. He shows up in this very beautiful way of like, helping, serving, getting stuff done and being the person. He's like very proud of that. So I was like, we don't have to become a different person. But for him, we actually chose this intention and this like kind of archetype of the heart-centric hero. So it is someone who can show up, knock down doors, save babies from burning buildings. but what would it look like for him to operate more from his heart and from a compassionate perspective instead of like, I just need to do this. need like almost like from a desperation, from a frustration and how can he bring more of that compassion to his clients? And so even like just operating from that, that core value, that core archetype and like choosing something that feels very specific to you. even one of my clients, think my favorite, all of my clients are my favorite, but this, this one mantra that my client had, a few years ago was just so beautiful. was the authentic be present. Be slow. He was someone who like literally ex military dude, and he actually has a book about it where he writes about how even like in the military, if you go fast, You could kill someone, but he's like, I think I've lost that because the speed of tech is so crazy. so having that mantra, I think he operated out of it for like two years helped him show up differently every single day. So even with business cases, it's like, you can change your business case. can use a template, but when you come at every single interaction, every single resource that you build for your customers, every single call that you have, instead of being like, I'm going to use this new cold call script. being like, I'm to be slow. I'm going to be intentional. I'm going to be authentic. I'm going to be present. That's very different. And so choosing the intention and then we actually do kind of map it down to different mindsets. So how does that intention change the way that you approach calls? And then how does that translate into every single tactic? So not thinking of tactics as like all of these separate projects, but how can I, how can I you know, change every single thing in my sales process to something that aligns with my intentions. So for him, it was like very tactical things, like before each call, he would take three breaths. He would also change the intention of the call instead of like focusing on an agenda where it's like, okay, I'm going to like, you know, cover this and then I'm going to cover the demo and then I'm going to do this, right? Like most like we've heard these calls, we hear them every day. His goal was to find out if they were a good fit, if he could help them and if it should move forward, if there was interest, right? So just opening it up. And also for him, so we actually covered it, be authentic, be present, be slow. So you'd be like slowing down your nervous system through breathing on the authenticity piece. I actually love this because like this client used to be so buttoned up. like, like military, he looked like military. He looked like a stock photo. I'm like making fun of him, teasing him, but he looks like a stock photo of a salesperson. And like after a year of work together, he had like grew his hair out and he had like, he had like his banjo and the background of his, of the, you know, the space that he would take calls from, and he would talk about music with his clients. so that authenticity and even just the presence, he was like, I used to be a robot cause I was so focusing on talk. tracks on calls instead of being present and hearing what they were saying and like noticing if they were, if they were like, they might be saying yes, but their body might be saying no. And so I think those things like the intention truly impacts all of the tactics. And for me, I think a lot of sales trainers, a lot of sales people, We just focus on the tactics and like, then we wonder, it's almost like an assembly line of like the sales process. And then we will wonder why we're like, this is really boring. I don't enjoy this at all. You know? So for me, it really starts with the intentions and like that can be so much more powerful and it can like change the entire energy that you show up with on, on sales calls.
Jolie Shapiro45:34.735
I love that. That's awesome. I was going to curse, but I'm trying to... I don't know. I'm sorry, you're trying to hold back?
Meghann Misiak45:40.494
I'm like trying to hold back but I was like. I was like, I was trying to hold back, but I got a couple in. But what came to mind for you?
Jolie Shapiro45:50.822
yeah. good. Yeah, no, I had cursed like way too much, especially when I get riled up. But, you know, yeah, so when I was talking about this, ironically with Claude. And I just literally just had this last week when I first started out the podcast, I was like. I had all my questions. had, you know, I was like super because I got I told her as well, like I got recruited by the FBI in college. So like I tend to interrogate, like interrogate people. It's not good because I don't want to talk about myself. It's not because. Yeah, I just don't I just said I don't want to get into the the skeletons in my closet, so I just, you know, berate, berate. That's not the right word.
Meghann Misiak46:28.253
my God. Mmm.
Jolie Shapiro46:43.535
bombard them with questions. then finally, so I, when I started the podcast, I'd never podcasted before. And I just had all these like, they're very interesting questions and I got great answers, but it wasn't a two way street. So then I started riffing off of the first question I asked you, which is what makes you you and then it's been 47 minutes. you know, it, I met so many incredible people and heard so many incredible stories. because I've opened up. And I think that... It's not the secret, especially not, I mean, it's not like the secret or like the piece of wisdom, but I mean, I feel like when, when we're vulnerable, maybe it is, maybe, yeah, I'm, I'm trying, I'm like being self-deprecating. Oh yeah, I was like, wait, maybe it is. I'm being like totally self-deprecating. I was like, exactly. Now I'm like, I don't want to say anything. But no, I feel, I feel like when we're, sorry, what's that? What'd you say?
Meghann Misiak47:29.198
You I don't know, think actually there's a lot of it. You're like, I need to reflect because I don't want to open up more. You're like, next question.
Jolie Shapiro47:48.732
Yeah, no, No, but I feel like when, like, for example, I post about, I post a lot about Burnout 2 and I was posting like maybe three lines, whatever. Like maybe people weren't resonating with it. And then I, what's his name? Liam Darmody. I think that's his name. He's a CMO. Yeah. I never, I've never interacted with him, but just on LinkedIn.
Meghann Misiak48:12.982
Yeah, amazing. No, I'm like, I'm obsessed with him. don't think I even had a call, but like I'm obsessed with his content. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro48:20.43
He's awesome. Yeah, he's very good. he was talking about being corporate. And I said, I commented, I commented today, I said, I've tried that. But when I get maybe 100 impressions, but when I crack my chest open and spill my guts about all the shit I've been through, people tend to resonate. And I'm like, is this like, I mean, yeah, what's up?
Meghann Misiak48:47.074
like you want. Like is this what you want?
Jolie Shapiro48:51.963
Yeah, that's basically what I was saying. was like, this is bullshit. Like I'm trying to like, I'm trying to like do the whole like basically the 2000, I guess pre COVID like, I'm sure you remember this. Well, you got on LinkedIn a little bit ago, right?
Meghann Misiak49:04.066
was more active on like starting in 2000. But no, honestly, it was still like that very much. It was like, you you acted on LinkedIn, like you acted in a boardroom.
Jolie Shapiro49:11.395
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like I remember having 50 things saved because or like 50 post day because they were so educational. Now it's, it's like this interesting, not paradox, you're like parallel between like being yourself and then also value add. So it's like a very fine line. It's it's honestly, I haven't cracked the code yet. But I'm just grateful to meet people like you. So if that's all that LinkedIn brings me, I'm good.
Meghann Misiak49:44.012
Can I give you an idea there? Yeah, could I offer a code that I've learned?
Jolie Shapiro49:51.576
sure, yeah, go for it.
Meghann Misiak49:53.548
Like, well, I worked with a content coach and actually something that helped me. Okay. This is also something, I just don't understand how people like, I, you know, I'm a sales coach and I'm a little biased by like, have a million coaches. So, you know, anyone who like looks at my LinkedIn is like, wow, I really like her content. yeah, it is, it is very formulaic and like it is after work with a coach and I, I try really hard. but he taught me like there's three types of content and it just made everything easier. So I think a lot of P I was posting too much value content, which is this is how to improve your discovery calls. This is how to X right. What we want. I was like, I want people to read this stuff. want you to like work with me. Right. but I was posting way too much of that and that's going to get the lowest engagement, no matter how good it is, honestly. There are some people that can do that every single day. I'm not one of them, okay? It's not that good. But there's also two other types that now I focus on more that are more top of funnel and mid funnel. So for top of funnel, I call this growth content and my shower thoughts, slap, slap. Like my phone actually just died and I went outside for a walk and I was like, no, I have... three ideas for silly content. Like one of them is like, gosh, 15 reasons why matcha is superior to coffee. That is one. Five ways to make your day better. And I'm like, literally just like look upward at the sky. Like if you can't touch grass, just like look at some butterflies. But I literally have like all these, you know, silly thoughts that come to mind. And I mean, some of my most viral posts are like, they're very silly. Like one of them was like my uncle. telling me that I needed to like be less open on LinkedIn. I mean, I got like 1500 likes people like Uncle Bill, everyone has an Uncle Bill, you know, but like those things people want to connect with humans. People want the silly they don't want to feel like they're in a boardroom because they're in a boardroom every day, you know, they can read a book if they want growth content or sorry, the all of the sales, you know.
Jolie Shapiro52:10.971
That's a good point.
Meghann Misiak52:13.376
And so I think like that has been really helpful to me. And I literally call those shower thoughts because I'm like, just like the growth content, like what are, what are fun things that can just make people feel like they know you. and then outside of that, there's another type, which is brand content. This is the one that I felt very uncomfortable sharing, but it's more so about like, when you study parasocial relationships and like literally building trust people, the easiest psychological way of building trust with. another human being is to show your face and to show your hands. Selfies, I was so opposed to doing. And now like, I feel like everyone's like, my God, you're like, someone actually like mentioned it. was like, why does everyone just post like macho selfies? And I was like, okay, back off. The selfies work. I'm not just posting selfies because I'm a narcissist. No, it's deep psychological reasons. And so. I think that's weird where I was like, I was like, no one wants to know about this. No one wants to know that, like, that I'm like on a macho walk to like, you know, but they're like, I do. So I post a lot about, I actually kind of have a few same ones. Like I post about my cat a lot. I post about, I always post my little macho walk and selfies and I post, about like living in Mexico. And so even if it's like little posts like that to get people to. experience you and like bringing it full circle from content to sales. I will just say like, I think that all of this shows that like a lot of us kind of like, even the way we build decks and presentations, we're so afraid of showing ourselves because we're like, no one wants to know that I'm a human. What are you I'm saying this very sarcastically because like, do you think people want to talk to robots? Like if I did, I was just like, use Google, you know? But I think we're so afraid of showing ourselves and opening ourselves up, but that truly, and even the silly things like making a joke or like having small talk, like, I hate small talk. Okay. Well, like maybe not everyone does. Maybe some people actually enjoy being human, but I think like the same things that work for content work in sales as well. But also that framework is really easy.
Jolie Shapiro54:24.249
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's awesome. Actually, I was laughing because one of my best reformed hosts, I had just gotten out of a surgery. I had just woken up for anesthesia. And I wrote a post, and it went viral. I think it was something about ChatGPT.
Meghann Misiak54:41.013
my gosh. What was it? feel like I don't even remember it because I was so doped up.
Jolie Shapiro54:50.421
Yeah, I, it was a it's probably still my fee, but it got like, I don't know, a hundred thousand impressions. And I don't know how many like just like it went totally ape shit. And I was high as a kite.
Meghann Misiak54:58.4
yeah. Yeah, so I'm just hearing like maybe you should just like anesthesia is your 2026.
Jolie Shapiro55:07.107
Yeah, just do morphine drip. Or more like a, sorry, that's a very dark joke. I'm gonna cut that out. But a caffeine drip.
Meghann Misiak55:18.117
Yes, yes. Oh my gosh, I like love the dark humor. If I'm like, it definitely is not always, you know, but it's also how I realized that I was like, am I with my people? Okay, yes. Have you been through trauma? Okay, yes.
Jolie Shapiro55:30.723
you're definitely with your people. Yeah. yeah. I can tell within like the first five minutes. Like, yeah. You've been through the shit. Yes.
Meghann Misiak55:37.272
Yeah, but I think like, you know, like humanity and people love silly and like people are like, this isn't Facebook. And I'm like, tell me that you're not fun at parties without telling me you're not fun at parties because like we don't, not everything has to be a border. We spend so much percentage of our life in corporate, in like office environments, in very professional environments. So I'm sorry, maybe people when they're not working would like to actually like connect with humans and take down that mask that we've been talking so much about on this call, right? Maybe they want to connect with people and have some fun and learn some stuff, but also like make it not like reading an encyclopedia. Who knew?
Jolie Shapiro56:21.083
Exactly. I know who knew. So this was awesome. I know that you're on LinkedIn, but would love to hear from you if anyone has any questions or wants to email you or kind of get in touch with you the best way.
Meghann Misiak56:26.347
Yeah! Yeah, so definitely the easiest way to connect with me on LinkedIn. Like I said, I am addicted to it. I live on it. It is, I'm the only person with my name on LinkedIn. So easy to find me. also, you know, feel free to send me a DM. I also have a newsletter called Letters to My Burned Out Self. Also feel free if you, if you like read it and you're like, wow, this touched my soul. You can feel free to send me a DM. I know they're like very sensitive, very soulful topics. And then also if you're a sales person or a sales team that would like to really level up and like, you know, reach top levels of performance, but also have a very rich life outside of it. And if any of these topics resonated, I do also have a free booking link. to Book a Sales Coaching Consult. So I have a few more spots open for 2026 and always looking for really soulful clients.
Jolie Shapiro57:35.099
Awesome. Well, this was great. Thank you so much.
Meghann Misiak57:36.534
Yes. I was like, we need to schedule another one already. We need to like have more chats. This is so, so beautiful.
Jolie Shapiro57:44.388
Yeah, I might just, I'm not going to take your sales call booking like that. I might just like find your booking like, yeah, we'll do that. Thank you so much.
Meghann Misiak57:48.526
We'll do it virtual at cost. Yeah. Thank you.