Jolie Shapiro00:02.059
Hey everyone, welcome to Revenue Mind, a podcast where revenue leaders talk all things mental health. I'm Julie, your host, and with this is Rob. Welcome, Rob.
Rob LoCascio00:11.597
Enjoy.
Jolie Shapiro00:12.895
Good, good. Thank you so much for hopping on. I know we're talking all things live person and how I was there for five seconds. But it's really cool to like we're talking about it's really cool to come full circle. So yeah, we'd love, sorry, what was that?
Rob LoCascio00:19.022
Seven months. No, I said, yeah, it was kind of funny when I reached out to you. Like, when I worked at Live First in like 2000, I'm like, oh wow. And then I thought about like, not to minimize your work, I was thinking about all these people that are all around the world, thousands and thousands of people over 28 years. that just are in every little corner of the world. And then you meet them every now and Like this, pretty fun for me. I meet people, I only meet people on the street where like, I worked at Live Person from, you know, 19, you know, whatever, 1997 to now. I'm like, okay, you know, or 2000. And it's like, wow, okay, so it's cool.
Jolie Shapiro01:08.203
Well, yeah, mean, if you have a company for, would you say, 27 years? 28? Yeah. Yeah, 20 years. You're going to meet a lot of your former employees.
Rob LoCascio01:11.278
28 years, 28 years. We had the raw underwear. And then there's customers. It's fun, building something long-term like that was pretty cool. It was a great experience.
Jolie Shapiro01:24.351
Yeah, that's great. So the question I typically ask that we tend to riff on is, and we can go any direction with this, but what makes you you?
Rob LoCascio01:39.522
Wow, that's a big question. What makes me me? I mean, I guess the thing that makes me me is me. mean, it's like, which is that I really fundamentally believe each of us has some sort of purpose. And I mean, my gift is just the ability to take in ideas and have a vision and organize it in a way and bring people around it and manifest it into products. I consider it like a gift and I'm lucky to have a gift like that. I've always felt that I always want to be in businesses with people. All my companies had something to do with human beings and hopefully connection between human beings. I think that's kind of my golden thread that's been running through my life. Also, I don't quit. I have some weird genetic disposition to not wanting to quit, regardless of how bad. things get. just naturally just feel like you have to work through the hard times to get learnings to get to the other side. just, know, quitting is not a great option. So.
Jolie Shapiro02:49.579
That's pretty, those are pretty noble attributes, I must say. Of course, now I remember hearing a, I don't know if it was a rumor, but we'd love to confirm. I actually remember at Live Person, I think there was a point where it was just, it was just a really bad, like just a tough time in the company and you were sitting in one of the rooms overnight or something, like on the couch. Sorry to call it, we can cut this.
Rob LoCascio02:53.742
Thank you. Yeah, we can try. Yeah, no, I slept, no, was, no, first two years, I slept on the couch. The first two years of live person, I slept on a couch. I started a company out of college, put like 50 grand on credit cards. That company went under and I ended up in New York City and... I started what would become Live Person, but I decided to get a small office instead of an apartment. because I didn't want to feel like I was not in business, like I quit business. And so got a little guy rented me a sub-lease, I made t-shirts in downtown Manhattan, a little space. And then I had my couch and a pillow and for, you know, a comforter. And for two years I lived there. And then I showered at a health club down the block, the New York sports club or something. And yeah, so that's how I lived. lived, and it was funny when I went public, it was the funniest thing when I went public, the auditors go through your books and they go, there's something really wrong with your books. And I said, well, what's wrong with it? said, from 1995 to 1997, it looks like you spent expense wise, including in your expenses, like $6,000. It's like $500 a month. I said, yeah. He goes, did you take money out of it? Like cash out of it? Like, you taking? I said, no, I lived on, that's what I lived on. And it's like, how could you live in New York City? I said, I slept on a couch, had a health club membership and ate ramen noodles. Like I didn't have a life. I just lived in this thing. It was a very cathartic. experience living on it, staying on a couch. And I still have the couch, it's an Ikea couch. I brought it with me here when I moved to California. So it always follows me.
Jolie Shapiro05:07.939
I love that, that you brought the couch. That's amazing. Yeah, I have a not similar story, but I definitely relate to the hustle. was in my early 20s and I didn't want to touch my savings. I got, I think I was in between jobs or something and I signed up for a part-time marketing job.
Rob LoCascio05:10.2
What the hell?
Jolie Shapiro05:29.299
and it cashier job at a fast casual place just so I didn't touch my savings. So I got I get it. Like that just that builder, I'm not gonna quit. No, no one's gonna bring me down like channel Aretha.
Rob LoCascio05:46.319
Mine was, I remember I listened to lot of Pearl Jam and like, you know, like a lot of, had this heavy, this music like to just stay alive. And I tell you, had a guy who was, I had this guy, Dr. Morio that was on a podcast I used to do. And Frank was a therapist, psychologist, and a friend of mine told me to meet with him because I was really in the dumps. And I met with him. And he was, there's a lot of stories with Frank. He really changed my life. It got me to think differently. he said, you know, want you to go volunteer and help others. And I remember I was like, Frank, I'm living on a couch. Like, don't, what is, and he's like, no, you'll see. So I went to a homeless shelter at St. Bart's Church on Park Avenue and I would volunteer. like once a month to sleep at the shelter and feed people. And I remember thinking, I'm lucky. Like there are people who don't have family who, you know. living because they were abused. mean, they had tough lives. wasn't like a lot of them were just they got into these situations and they didn't have a net. A lot of them didn't have safety net. a family. I always have a mom and dad if I need to like I could always go home in the worst case scenario. But and I was interesting. So just so you should never feel sorry for yourself. There's always people that are in worse situations. You know, at least I had a couch and a dream, you know, so.
Jolie Shapiro07:13.429
Yeah, that's, I mean. I feel like in general, it's really hard to not, what do they call my generation? The boomerang generation? Wherever went back to their parents, especially during COVID. But I think that was a bit of an exception. But I think in general, I think it's really hard to teach that kind of hustle and grit. I think that's intrinsic. What are your thoughts on that?
Rob LoCascio07:28.6
Yes. Well, if you put yourself out there in life and you're really trying to do things that are outside of yourself, which are new things, inevitably you're going to get into some sort of place where it's hard. And I had this podcast called Over the Wall and I would interview people and I named it Over the Wall because I said like, God, whatever you believe in, puts up these walls and gives you these challenges. That's what it is. And all of us face it. Everyone suffering and challenges in life is all part of the human experience. Some people end up with cancer at age five. We all know in humanity there's every spectrum of suffering. I just feel like these things are given to you as gifts at times and you work through them. You know what saying? You just gotta kind of work through the hard times. And so I don't think it's that. I think everyone has it in them. I think every human being has the grit. It's a question whether you're gonna put yourself in an unsafe environment. You see what I'm saying?
Jolie Shapiro09:00.767
Yeah, that was really well put.
Rob LoCascio09:05.496
Like if I take someone who's got the most safety and certainty in their life and I stick them in a very uncertain place, it's amazing how you will change to try to survive, to move forward, or you die.
Jolie Shapiro09:22.005
That's making me think of lost the show. How everyone, had a religious component to it think toward the end, but everyone rose to the occasion to survive because if they didn't, that was it.
Rob LoCascio09:24.845
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and as I've gotten, I don't know if I've gotten older or just I've seen a lot more things, but then I just started to move start and I ran a company for 28 years. And then I now have two startups and they're startups. they literally feel like startups. They're like every day you go in and they're exciting and there's ups and downs, a lot more volatility. But I think, and then I've got young kids, I got three young kids, but I definitely have been recently in the last seven months since my birthday, I've been really putting a practice together to get closer to God. I don't know if there's like, I think as an entrepreneur, or you I don't care if you're selling. Like I'm really fascinated with this idea of having a closer relationship like a conversation with God and I'm not enough so I'm not some a holy I don't go I didn't go to church so I'm not something you know, I was raised Christian but I never had that like but somehow in the last seven months like I said man I'm building something I'm building these companies I have these big visions and I just I need something, you know, and I will say as an entrepreneur if If you can get there and I'm on a journey definitely makes things more understandable. It makes things more like just focused. You know because there's a lot of noise when you're building a company there's a lot of noise when you're out in world running teams, leading teams. I don't care what it is, a lot of noise. how do you cut through the noise? A lot of noise in your head most of the time. It's a lot of noise in your head. talking to yourself half the day. It's like crazy talk, you know. So how do you kind of elevate that conversation above yourself?
Jolie Shapiro11:26.635
grew with that so I did the 12 step program. Yeah I don't think no I was definitely not sober when I was a bi person. I wasn't drinking actively but I was not like in the office but I was not sober. I was eating all the snacks though.
Rob LoCascio11:29.464
Bye. I do it. I know I do. Yeah, of course.
Jolie Shapiro11:56.543
Anyway, so I the 12 step program and my my I'm not super religious. But in AA you connect to something higher than yourself. They're like it can be a rock. It doesn't have to be God. It doesn't have to be it can be the universe. It could be so for me it was connection. The power of human connection because I just, and I think COVID taught us a lot about that too. Cause we missed, think like about a couple of years after COVID, everyone wants to be in person now. And I think.
Rob LoCascio12:40.664
I don't know about that. I think people got used to not being in person, if you know what mean.
Jolie Shapiro12:45.473
I don't mean work. mean, like, we crave, well, at for me, that, yeah, you, I crave that connection. Not necessarily work, but just in general. Yeah.
Rob LoCascio12:48.834
Yes. Yes. Yeah, it's a, you know, there's a post COVID world because I saw it even working when I was working at LivePerson. Like nobody wanted to come back. And I felt like I always felt the office, you you were there, you experienced like we had this culture and you would come and even I got to meet everyone. you know, some of my best friends, a godfather to my youngest kid is the first employee I ever hired at LivePerson, Mike Colosso. our families are great friends. I would never met him if I didn't start the company. So I always looked at the company as this experience to have connection. And the more diversity you meet, like of minds and people, the more you're going to grow as a human. So I always felt the company had this kind of purpose. Post COVID, it was like nobody cared. I just saw a place where people weren't really valuing that anymore. And they were valuing their individuality, which... We're kind of in that place today. We're in a place of myself versus the community, you know.
Jolie Shapiro14:03.061
have a, this might be, we'll see where this question goes. This is why I have an editor, because if I ask something too off the wall, he'll cut us out. Okay, cool.
Rob LoCascio14:10.72
I'm pretty open. I'm pretty open. I like it. I get some I can see where this podcast can go. So I'm like, okay, just kind of go with the flow. So
Jolie Shapiro14:19.797
Sounds good, awesome. Yeah, it's definitely a riff. It used to be very structured and I told many guests this. It used to be very, very structured because I was so nervous. And then I was like, you know, let me just hear their story and let's just talk and have a conversation and see where it goes. And it actually turned out for the better. So my question, so you mentioned community, you mentioned having a relationship with God. You mentioned starting two new companies. And so what do you and you know, volunteer at homeless shelters and sleeping on your couch. Like what do do you, how do put this? Do you see yourself, do you see that you have a purpose? Do you think you have a purpose? And if so, what is that purpose?
Rob LoCascio15:12.102
It's interesting because when I left, when I left LivePerson, I had a board member, a LivePerson called Peter Block, and he's like one of the foremost people in community and connections, where he made books and worked. somewhere like five years into him being a board member, we were at some event and it was during a cocktail party. And he said, was that tech, like a small tech event. And he said, you know, all these people here, there's all these CEOs, like everyone's so certain about. everything they're doing. goes, you know, I've got a question for you. He says, do you think what you're building is creating better community and connection? And I'm like, I couldn't answer the question. I felt like as a cultural, we were trying to get these meaningful connections, one of our core values, create meaningful connections, but I could not answer it as a company. So when I started these new companies, I've got one called kid, which is a kid's device for children to bring AI safely in the home. And the other one is a, platform for people to replicate themselves and own their own. AI models. they own, own our data sets and models. want to be able to answer the question. And so I felt like AI, I felt like AI is this opportunity to redefine what an AI company is because no one defined it. And, and I said, I think I can do this to, actually put products in the world that can drive better connection, community and creativity within, with people. So yeah, so I guess for me, I felt like AI, I don't know, I have this kind of calling that I learned so much over 28 years at one company, but now I feel like I can apply it to this very massive change that's going, that right now is heading into a direction that's uncertain. Like it's a very uncertain time. Like we have big tech owning big models with a lot of big money, with a lot of big power. And that usually ends up in a really big mess. And so I feel like it should be. small models, people owning their knowledge, their intelligence, being credited for that intelligence. And then on the other side, they can have that living inside of these devices that are unique and they're helpful. And I see a different world than the iPhone and large language models. And so that's the world I'm trying to create with these two companies. So yeah, so feel like there's definitely, I kind of feel much clearer purpose why live person. where it sets my life compared to where these two companies sit.
Jolie Shapiro17:46.998
Got it. So what do you see is the main differences between LiePerson and these two companies? Like if you had to put it in a couple sentences.
Rob LoCascio18:00.429
I mean, Liveperson had a very, it had a very, it had a purpose, the product had a purpose. was a very, you know, was chat and messaging and stuff. And it had a very tactical purpose. The utility, was a utility. Anyways, where I think these companies are more about delivering some, you know, this connection between human beings. Like I built this device called Kid and it's really about children and their parents. I call it Bring Back the Bond. having a device where they can create together, they can create stories together, they can create art together, they create music together. I feel like because these devices, I see with my kids, have three young kids, like I'm on my phone, then they're grabbing my phone. So I just feel like there is, technology can play a part. in bringing people together where today it's kind of ended in a place where we're fighting to be not disconnected. It's driving disconnection every day. We all know we're on a call, people there, they always talk about it. I don't have to, there's people writing about it and research about it, but I can do something about it. Like I can actually build products, organize people and drive, you know, something into the marketplace that people can have an alternative because the alternative today is bad. It's large language models and devices that make our kids be addicts. Our kids are addicts. I really you think about a 12 step program. Like my, for drobians is like my mid, my seven year old son a couple of years ago, like at three o'clock in the morning. I hear noise and he's downstairs just going like this at three in the morning on an iPad. He didn't even know what time it was. He didn't know what he was doing. He didn't know. It's the addict thing. He couldn't answer. What are you up for? I don't know. Why are you looking at YouTube? I don't know. Do you know it's three o'clock in the morning? I don't know. So he got out. His first instinct was. Not go back to bed, not go to the bathroom. was first thing was jump on the drug. It's a drug for children. It's very bad.
Jolie Shapiro20:04.491
So how are you aiming to change that with your current company?
Rob LoCascio20:08.258
You know, the kit device is really about, it doesn't have the scroll, it doesn't have the internet. It takes the power of the eye. And like a four-year-old, my four-year-old can create, you know, can say, I want to have an image of a unicorn flying to Mars, or I want to create a story with daddy and me, and we're going on an island. And it creates all that. And the thing I see is that children have the best creativity. Like as we get older, we kind of lose it a little bit because of society. But they have so many wonderful things in their minds, and they can be great writers, great directors, great painters at just four years old. like at five years old, like, because they can speak their minds and have the AI make it and create it. And that's where I see there's just a joy that comes with it. And that's why I wanted to create versus like get them on the, you know, another thing that they're going like this and they're looking at. And the people who create that content are terrible people. Like people who create, most of the people who create content for children on YouTube kids are just total bad human beings. They're not out to help children. They're not here to educate our children. They're here to get our kids to be addicts. And they disguise it as funny humor, animation, but it's really drug dealing to me. So it really is, and it really is, and they know what they're doing over there. I mean, even at YouTube. The CEO said the other day, don't let my kids like he doesn't let his kids use it And he said and I talked to some very senior executive a couple of months ago and I asked her about it And she was like, I won't let my kids scroll on YouTube like they know what they have I don't mean to be so but it's got it, you know, they don't care just wants a lot of ads
Jolie Shapiro21:56.404
Yeah, that's wow. I remember so I'm not the generation that got told go outside and play in the sunshine and come back at six and then we'll all have dinner. That was my mom's generation. But I was kind of in the middle. I think I started using a I think I had a cell phone maybe in sixth grade and I started using computer like very old school computer, but around third grade. But what I love about what you said is that AI can be a crutch, it can also expand our imaginations to something that we never knew was possible.
Rob LoCascio22:38.988
Yeah, I mean, there's two parts that it does for us. can allow us to be our best creators and it can allow us to get leverage on our time as in. we have the other business you are, you are.ai. We allow people, they replicate themselves and they replicate their personalities and everything. And the ability to have people access that can really access your essence, can access your X factor of your knowledge is empowering versus your, keep, we keep giving our knowledge into chat, GPT or whatever. keep like using that. It's taking our knowledge and, and then it, it, don't even get credit for it. You know, like it said, it's getting smarter. And then this is perspective that we're getting dumber. You know, and we're starting to idolize. What's going to happen is it's idolatry. It's like, it's we're idolizing technology that is better and above us. And it's like the first time that we really think like it's, it's got it. They always put it out. It's got a PhD. Like it's always PhD this and PhD that and no, it's got my knowledge. Like it's, it's it's a dumb machine. If all these, if all of us took our knowledge out of that machine tomorrow, it would do nothing. It doesn't have, it's not a sentient being. It's just. it's a vacuum cleaner of knowledge of humanity and then it's trying to repackage it as in a weird way and making us all think we're dumb. Like, you I have doctors, we work with like neurosurgeons and people like that who replicate and they're like, God, it's getting as smart as I am. like, yeah, because you keep giving it your data. Like it is going to be, if you keep giving it your knowledge about your business, it's going to act as smart as you like, but it wasn't. So the person was like, yeah, two years ago, it wasn't that good, but now it's really good. I'm like, cause a bunch of people in your field of business gave it your knowledge and now it's smart. So like it has to stop. All that has to stop.
Jolie Shapiro24:31.815
that's I'm nodding along because I'm like, yep, I used to back down in 23 and it definitely wasn't as good. Now it it sounds I mean, I don't have I have memory off and I have I don't have a way to learn from me. But when it could, that was scary. It was almost like talking to myself.
Rob LoCascio24:50.062
which people are starting to do. We see it in ours too, like they use it as their own therapist. And know, then the problem with kids as you read is like there are kids who are using it and they end up killing themselves and hurting themselves because it's kind of that kind of an engine. It kind of leads you down any road you want to go down. So in my, in our case, we, built a device that's really about, um, just for children's four to 12 years old. The models are made for four 12 year old. wasn't like an adult model ever trying to fit into a child. So look, AI safety is the biggest part. I saw some senators got together, uh, yesterday and we're like, we're going to investigate AI child's toys because there were a lot that being dumped on the market, which is general, you know, chat, GPT, or there was some from China with chat with the Chinese. model and they're just not they're not safe you know we just got our yes two days ago we got Copa compliant which is the highest is an FTC rating for the safety of children in India so we just got our copa compliance so right yeah it's a really high honor to get it so like because we spent a year working on it with the company that certified us and we from the beginning built purpose built with them helping us to understand how do we build this thing so we could get the certification
Jolie Shapiro25:48.959
Congratulations. That's amazing. How do you think that comes back to everything you're doing? How do you think that comes back to your higher sense of self?
Rob LoCascio26:15.756
It goes back to like, want to know that we're, especially with kids, like kids and families, I just, I want to know that I'm putting something in the market that could serve my family and that ultimately it's serving this purpose of bringing families together and not just one more thing in the home where parents have to fight with the kids or it creates another addiction or it just creates another disconnected moment. in a family and I guess you know I'm older but I have these three young kids nine, seven and five and you know living with young kids and seeing what I've seen through the technology arc and lens is just so fascinating and seeing how they approach technology for good or bad. So and I and this is there's a little bit too much bad versus good and I just feel like that that needs to be changed because AI should not be a scary thing or Something that parents now don't want in their home It should be something that's embraced for what it for what it does. Well, which is great. You know help you create
Jolie Shapiro27:25.227
Yeah, I grew up that I definitely was an AI addict at one point. At some point, I used it for probably still. I it for almost everything. But I have a very addictive personality, so that tracks. I will latch on to something, but right now it's not AI. It's a... it's indoor cycling. you know, I'm just like, you know what, I have an objective personality. have to obsess over something. So I'm going to, I'm going to obsess over exercise.
Rob LoCascio28:00.099
That's an entrepreneurial, all entrepreneurs have addictive personalities. That's what makes us, or addictive and obsessive. like we are. you know, we have to be committed on a different level to whatever it is. And there's, it's funny because there's things in my life where more entertaining things I've gotten involved with and like sports and stuff and I just go all in, you know, I'm like, I have to do it like to the team. have to become a master. I used to do this thing called capoeira. It's like a Brazilian dance martial art. like to get, was a capoista. It was just the funniest thing. just would, and. It just, you I think it's just the nature of a certain personality. Like that's what makes people like us, you you build in, cause you'll go all the way, whatever all the way is, you know.
Jolie Shapiro28:46.053
Yes, it definitely can be a double-edged sword.
Rob LoCascio28:49.038
Yeah. Yeah. Some of my friends were thinking like, sometimes my friends in the past would be like, what are you doing? You're like, you do capoeira. And I'm like, yeah, it's so cool. get to martial arts, dance. They're like, okay, fine. And then I became everything capoeira. Like my friend, everything, you do everything around it. Yeah, it is what it is.
Jolie Shapiro29:03.211
Do you consider it? Yeah, no, but I think, yeah, was talking to someone on a podcast, guess a while ago when I first started and they said being a founder is like a drug.
Rob LoCascio29:22.348
Yeah, it's definitely, and I've unfortunately seen, I mean, I've seen myself at the beginning and I learned a lot because I failed and I had to kind of clean up my act through like working with Dr. Frank. I've also done like the Tony Robbins stuff. I've had coaches over the years. Like you can't get to where I got and continue without help. You have to keep thinking through things and. And, but I've, you know, I've helped and coach some CEOs and stuff and like the two deadliest things of, I mean, founders, two deadliest things are founders is certainty and, and, and control. you know you you when you want to over you when you over control and you want certainty and and preeminence is the other one like you're if you're all about your ego and getting that that hit of hey I'm important and you want certainty which are the two these two things they can destroy you because as a building of businesses, if you over rotate on those two things, you're gonna end up in trouble whether you like it or not. Because you're gonna be high, you're gonna be high control people, good people just don't wanna work with you. You're not gonna be able to really scale. You're gonna stay a small, and most of time you'll fail because it's just the way it works.
Jolie Shapiro30:43.211
That's a first. Did you learn that the hard way?
Rob LoCascio30:59.916
Yeah, yeah, definitely learned it the hard way. Like I failed enough times early on that I was like, okay, you know, but obviously people build companies because they want control. Like you want control on a different level that you don't think you can get working for anybody. So you ultimately want to be the master of your own destiny. How you control the functioning of that or dysfunction of that is the part that's hard. A lot of times you have to get burned and lose a lot and have problems and fail enough times to be like, okay, something I'm doing here is not working for me.
Jolie Shapiro31:40.524
Exactly. Yeah, I have, I haven't, I haven't failed. No, I've definitely failed. I've definitely failed enough times. What did I interview this person who said, my podcast guests can say it so much better than I can. But she, she mentioned like failing herself into success. I thought that was a great line.
Rob LoCascio32:02.828
or fail forward. lot of I've the same, you fail forward. But I think, look, you don't want to fail. You don't want to fail twice on the same thing. You want to fail once on it, learn and move forward. But you don't, make it sometimes you do make the mistake twice. But it goes down to like, you know, you can't look for health over sickness, wealth over poverty. That's just like we It is what it is. This is what I learned recently on my journey with getting closer to God. It is just what it is. You can't want something over something. It will be what it will be, regardless. And so when you really think about it, in this kind of formation I'm in now, in this... journey I've been on since May, it's like the CEO of this business has got, like there's a CEO above you. And when you think of that, yes, I am working for somebody. I am not the full control. Things will happen outside of my control and maybe everything. I often think maybe everything's outside my control. And maybe I'm part of this thing, but maybe there's a lot that I don't even understand that's gonna happen whether I wake up or not. That'll happen whether I think I'm gonna push it forward or not. So. It doesn't relieve you of the fact that you have to be, you want very high standards and high quality of your products. You want to be committed. And you gotta drive people around a vision and they wanna follow that vision. You have to be a leader and you have to be up in front. So I just think, but there may just be, I think there's something else that's out there that's kinda, it is what it is.
Jolie Shapiro33:59.604
Yeah, I really can. I really feel that my parents are actually, I won't get into it because they'll kill me. Not that they listen to this, but if they did, they'd kill me. Because like, don't talk about us. They're both very, I'm most likely going to lose my parents. I won't age myself, but I'm kind of aging myself by 40 with what they have. And my mom, probably earlier, but my mom, said something, she said the lesson, she's very, she's pretty spiritual herself. And she said, you know, I think the lesson that, that my lesson in life that, you know, universe, God, whatever you want to call it, has taught me is that the more I try to control the chaos, the more life throws at me.
Rob LoCascio34:57.912
Yeah, that makes sense. That kind of makes sense to me. It's like, yeah, yeah. And if you've been through enough in life, you realize that, you know, on the other side of whatever that moment is, you know, there's the, you're in a, you're always in a time of sort of like healing and learning. If you know what I mean? Like you're in these, there's a cycle at the same exact time where you're learning your healing. And so we have to think through that. That's just kind of the cycle. you're right. It's this chaos, whether that's the learning part, you're in that, and you're healing, or the healing part, whatever, power part. You're moving through something. And if you try not to, you try to over-rotate on it, it's going to be a balance anyway. It'll keep pushing in the other direction to get you in that cycle of healing and learning. So, you know.
Jolie Shapiro35:55.345
It's almost like a pendulum.
Rob LoCascio35:57.731
Yeah. Yeah. It goes back and forth. And I don't know if there's really a balance in it all, but if you have this sense that there's something else out there is like the CEO of you. It's good title for a book, the CEO of you. But if there's a, if there's a CEO of you out there, then it kind of like, doesn't relieve you of your, it was really interesting because my transformation last five months, there's a moment in time where I never think. I've always been in charge of something and responsible. then, and I've heard that interesting enough from other entrepreneurs, they almost think that if they let it go, if they let that part go, that they won't be successful. that if they let go of the control, they let go of the, it could be the dysfunction, the thing that makes them feel not good. The thing that's in their mind a lot of is about the little voice in your head telling you you're not gonna make it, you're not good, you're gonna be a failure. And they think that drives me, that really drove me, that drives me. If that thing wasn't in my head, God, I wouldn't be the person I am. It's not true, it's like, actually I saw it, because as I've let go of that over the years, like you're still gonna get up in the morning early. you're still gonna work late. You're still gonna try to get your goals done. It doesn't relieve you of the commitment you have to your life, but it just kind of relieves you of that thing that makes you feel like you're not the best person you can be.
Jolie Shapiro37:27.893
Yeah, for sure. I've had this conversation with friends of mine over the years. For me at least, I'll speak in I statement. It's a joke from a program I did. But so I think that for me, because I got dealt or at least in the past because I was dealt such a tough set of cards I had that intrinsic like just I am gonna do anything to succeed and I am going to prove all of you wrong and you know just because I have a mood disorder I'm gonna you know rise to the top and and and at the end the day it's like Yeah, I got a, I got a, you know, I also had a son, my mom again, we're very close son and mom. it's like, you know what, we, at the end of the day, like, you don't, you can either think about the bad, all the bad and all the things that you're going to use to, power forward, or you can think about how amazing the amazing moments in your life. And I think that brings it back to the, is what it is.
Rob LoCascio38:46.926
Yeah, and look, I don't know everything about your background and you don't know everything about mine, but let's just say I give you a deck of cards and I say there's 52 cards in the deck and each one of those represents what life could be. One card is you're a billionaire on a yacht in the Mediterranean. The other part is you're born into the Sudan right now and you're being hunted down and you're being killed. You're a baby who was born with some disease. You're going to die in two weeks. So if I held those cards out and a fan and said pick one. Would you want to pick one over the current life you have? Would you want to take the chance? And I think most people would say no f-ing way. I'll just stick with what I got because as much as I can hit that card, I don't want to hit it. Because you know, if you really think about it, it seems like out of 52 cards, there's 50 of them that could be pretty bad. And there's like two that could be like my life and maybe something better. But there's like 50 of them in there that can be something, because you see it in the world. There's like around us, there is a lot of situations of people's lives that are just unlivable. They're not like we're sitting on a podcast and okay, we're dealing with an issue. It's about people living.
Jolie Shapiro39:55.474
definitely. No!
Rob LoCascio40:02.166
in a place right now where they think somebody could burst into my door and murder me and my family for just because we have a certain background, religion, we live in the wrong place, or we can't eat today because I was born in the wrong place, there's no food, or I got a place where there's a lot of disease and I can't, I mean, it's just, you can write, the human stories are, 50 of them are not something you want to be a part of, and we're lucky, so you know.
Jolie Shapiro40:28.811
for sure yeah I love that deck of cards analogy I might steal that if you don't mind oh cool okay we'll just what is it uh that movie pay it forward just keep bringing up the deck of cards analogy yeah I definitely I used to kind of almost flaunt my
Rob LoCascio40:35.854
Let's start from somebody else here.
Jolie Shapiro40:52.555
what everything that I've been through and how I deserve this and how I deserve that but you're not deserve but I'm gonna prove this I'm gonna prove everyone wrong kind of thing but to your point we're sitting here on a podcast and any given day I can I read this newsletter 1440 it's like a I don't know if you've heard of it but it's a it's like a recap of the news every day and at any given moment there's a tsunami or there's a war in a part of the world and all the stories that we don't hear, like you said, like some people are afraid, even in the United States, like some people are afraid to wake up in the morning.
Rob LoCascio41:30.958
Well, yeah, we had a deal, know, sort of over the weekend with some, you know, Rob Reiner's wife was murdered. And, but the majority of what goes on obviously is there's a lot of good stuff. I always feel like though, that like it was, goes back to my living on the couch and I still have my couch, which is, it's a remembrance of, and that time that, you know, things could always be back in the couch and, you know, then I remember feeding people in a shelter. like, you could end up anywhere. So look, the bottom line is, um, Building things, I go back to being here, building companies or building whatever dream you have is a, it's an uncertain task. It's one that may not give you anything, you know, or it may give you, but it will give you, may not give you riches, may not give you rewards, may not give you, you're known as someone in the world and people are. praising you on Instagram or Twitter, but it's gonna give you your life. And whatever that is, you know, it's pretty good. you know, like the problem is we're living as, I don't have say it, it's like the world, especially the world in our phones, looks like a fabulous world with fabulous everything. And the reality is like, you know, it's like, if I see one more person who posted, I made a million dollars in a week or. you know, now it's about five, I raised, I was going to sell myself to, you know, whatever for a billion and now I didn't and now we're worth six billion. I mean, I'm like, all of this gets, I saw the dot com where I was in the middle of the previous explosion of. notoriety and wealth and I lived in the middle of so many dot-comers my god, it was extraordinary were up there and praised and and you don't even know they're nameless now because they've almost lost their jobs lost their money and lost everything and they just went away and Peacefully they went away because they didn't have social media to kind of like not go away peacefully They couldn't make a podcast or do something. They just went away whatever you do when you fail at that level. So I've seen it and it's the same stuff. People making up things and trying to get the rest of everyone to feel bad and the reality is whatever life you're leading you just got to lead it. know what saying? Lead it. Not follow it, lead it. And that's the hard part. Like lead it. Get up in the morning and lead the life you want to lead. Whether you're running sales or you're working at company or running your own business, you got to lead it.
Jolie Shapiro44:00.716
say this every time, but everyone gives me the title of podcast at the end of the show. It's like a weird sort of thing. It's like a, so that lead part, that's going to be something with that's going to be part of the Literally every time it's always at the end. I don't know why, but it's like this thing. Um, cool. So going back, um, great. Well, this was awesome. Thank you so much, Rob. It was really great to reconnect after all.
Rob LoCascio44:14.734
That's good. Great. Yeah, I know. It's like, I just remember how wonderful you were and everything. You know what's so funny? As we're talking, I was making a joke there for a second, like, but I, cause I, but as you were talking, now I remember you. You know, it's funny, like the mind, yeah, cause yeah, I can, now I can see you in that setting because for reason as you're, as you're, as we talk now, your voice and your face just kind of, I felt like now you were there. You know what saying?
Jolie Shapiro44:30.411
Thanks.
Rob LoCascio44:54.06
When I thought you thought when you resigned, I like, I don't remember you.
Jolie Shapiro44:54.215
pretty cool. Well, that's pretty sweet. Well, what you're doing is amazing. Where can we find you?
Rob LoCascio45:05.038
So you can find me at kidco.ai, is the kid in U-R-U, letter U-A-R-E.ai is the company where we do individual AIs. But if you're a parent, you have a place in an AI. device now to give to your kids that's going to be a really wonderful experience and if you want to you know not be hijacked and have all your knowledge taken by a large language model you can have your own small model and the human we call it the human life model that's based on your wonderful self and and so come to your AI and sign up get on the lists and we'll be live in a few weeks so
Jolie Shapiro45:46.635
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, Rob. Congratulations.
Rob LoCascio45:49.123
Thank you. Thanks for everything.