Jolie Shapiro00:01.782
Hey everyone, welcome to the Revenue Mind Podcast, a podcast where Leaders damn it, I'm starting over. So this'll take this'll take like minute to probably to get right. Why is it saying live and not recording? That's so confusing. Do you see live?
Heather Bell00:20.324
no, I just see a recording button and then I see like the upload to cloud. yeah, it doesn't say recording, but I see like the cloud icon that I think is like the upload of the recording.
Jolie Shapiro00:23.274
We see reporting, right? Okay, good. Okay. So this is five boosters. Things okay, let's we'll figure I'm sure it'll work. I'm hoping. I see cloud and 90%. Okay, okay. Sorry, everything changed on me in five months. All right, I'm gonna do this again. all right. Hey everyone, welcome to the Revenue Mind Podcast, a podcast where revenue leaders talk all things mental health. I'm Joe Le and with us is Heather. Welcome, Heather.
Heather Bell00:57.696
Hi, Jolie. Thanks so much for having me.
Jolie Shapiro00:59.764
Yeah, thank you. thank you for being patient with the start after relaunching after five months. That was that was interesting. That was so I really appreciate your patience there.
Heather Bell01:12.174
No problem.
Jolie Shapiro01:13.758
Awesome. Well, I heard you're a longtime follower, so I keep bumping into things. Thank God my editor. I heard you're a longtime follower. really, really cool to have you on the podcast and excited to get to know you. So
Heather Bell01:28.696
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, love love to listen because particularly for folks who are in revenue, mental health is is a big part of your success and and then being able to enjoy the rest of your life outside of work. So it's really, you know, great work that you're doing to help bring this to the forefront for folks.
Jolie Shapiro01:52.055
I really appreciate that. Yeah, I I lived in Manhattan and it was so Manhattan, it's what do you do? Boulder, Colorado, it's what startup are you working on? And where else? California. Or no, Nashville, it's what album are you producing? And LA, it's like, you know, I'm trying to think what movie or or what movie are you writing? Like it's it's just like it's all about you know what you're doing. So that's I really appreciate that. All right well you know the deal. So you ready to rumble? Okay. All right Heather first question what makes you you
Heather Bell02:18.85
Mm-hmm. Yeah, let's go. so I I think it for me actually goes back to my childhood. I had two like fairly blue collar parents. and the the model that they gave me of hard work and time with family, I think are the two things that that really contributed to not only my success, but who I am and like what I decided to do in life, that ultimately I can control my own destiny. with my hard work, but that it's really all all for my family and for providing my kids a life that I maybe didn't have as a kid or couldn't have dreamed of.
Jolie Shapiro03:19.557
That's amazing. How and a lot of respect goes out to you. How do you feel like you are giving your kids a better life?
Heather Bell03:31.843
Yeah. like socioeconomically, like so many things open up for them when your parents aren't stressed about money. And I'm, you know, able to, because I invested in myself and work hard in tech, I'm able to give them life in like a really beautiful community. They can do any activity that they want. so it's not just about like, I can give you the toy that you want, but it's it's also that I can raise them in a place where they're really safe. They can, you know, lean into the hobbies and things that they're interested in. But also that I'm here. my parents had to commute a long time to give us the things that we had. they each drove like an hour plus each way. So they weren't around. And I I do think that that is a big silver lining of COVID, is that I can be successful and financially stable, but also see my kids grow up. For example, when my son was a baby, I I took him to daycare at four months because my maternity leave was over. And he would be there from like 7 30 in the morning until five. And then we got to see him for an hour, hour and a half. Whereas my daughter was born in 2020 and it's it's a totally different ballgame because we're here, she was here, we were able to juggle work and having some Some help from family. but she was able to stay home so much longer because of the flexibility that we had post-COVID.
Jolie Shapiro05:08.406
Yeah, for sure. It I was I wasn't smirking, I was smiling. I was I was half laughing because I always called it a silver lining, but I kind of feel like an asshole calling it a s calling COVID a s like the the silver lining of COVID is that, you know, we we get to spend time with the people that we love and it really changed the future of work. But it's like the other side is, you know, millions of people died. But but there's all there's always, you know, room to carry both. It's
Heather Bell05:38.968
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro05:39.476
It's because when I say that I'm like, should I really say that? But I'm really happy to hear that you also say it because I am not the only one. no, but that that's awesome. did you did you always want kids? Was that like a like an instinct or
Heather Bell05:55.575
No. No. If if you would ask me in my early twenties, like nope, wasn't interested because I loved the freedom that being a young professional gave me. I lived in San Francisco. I, you know, you got to do whatever you wanted. I could s I, you know, just all the things that come with being young. I I'm a millennial, so I was out. all the time at bars and just having such a great time. I could never imagine that fun coming to an end. And then I met my husband and was like, ooh, yeah, maybe I do I do wanna make a family with this person. And that that's not the only way to have fun. Now like truly a good weekend is, you know, we we made a board game together and I watched my son win in his flag football championship and my daughter had her dance competition. So getting to see the world through new eyes, and also knowing that it's a phase, like, you know, I'm gonna be retired and free again at some point. and for now I'm just really enjoying the phase that I'm in.
Jolie Shapiro07:08.063
The season of life. As they call it. That's awesome. Huh. I'm trying to think of this is why we have the hours because my my brain just like
Heather Bell07:10.061
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro07:21.565
Mostly my ADHD. Again, Kevin, thank you for cutting this out. I'm sure he la I'm sure he laughs at me like the entire and he's gonna hear this too. I'm sure he laughs at me the entire recording, like, girl, what are you doing? okay, so kids. Sorry, and that again, this is my first one in six months, so I really appreciate your patience. Season of Life. Kids. yeah, that's my question. Thank you. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I I hate when and I would love to get your thoughts because I'm I'm not a mom. but I I hate when I just saw a post about on LinkedIn where women at least this is how it used to be. I don't know if it's like this anymore, but women are there was essentially like a superhero moment in women's lives. It might have been the generation before us. But women were kinda expected to do everything. And again, like I'm not a mom, so I don't know the dynamics, but I was curious how how that plays out now and if it's still a thing and your opinion on it.
Heather Bell08:21.358
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Still a thing. I think the Barbie movie and the speech that America Ferreira gave like perfectly encapsulates it that not only do you have to do, you gotta do it all, but you're supposed to do it and not be too thin or too fat or sad or angry. yeah, well, while also frankly having a lot of the deck stacked against you. Because it it is still very much a patriarchal, patriarchical society. where if if you don't say golf or you didn't go to the right fraternity or the right college and you don't know the right guy, it is harder. There is still implicit bias for sure. but frankly, I think a lot of the way that I've started to navigate that is just by being in the right room. That's not the room for me, and that's okay. There's lots of opportunity where I can be in the right room and somebody's gonna maybe not even clock that I'm a woman. I've actually found that if they're excited that I'm a woman and they like me for the fact that I'm bringing something different to the team, that that's a pretty big red flag. that it it shouldn't be a difference maker. They should really just be ranking me for like my talent and what my experience brings to the table.
Jolie Shapiro09:52.321
I love that. Can you expand a little bit on what being in the right room looks like for you?
Heather Bell09:59.095
Yeah. So when I set out to find a new role, which I I just landed in my new job about a month and a half ago, I put together a list of of my hard requirements. And frankly, a friend who I met through Women in Sales, who is a CRO at a company and you know, had a really good heart to heart with me at the Women in Sales retreat said, You have to have your non-negotiables, and that's how you're gonna find out if it's your room. And not every opportunity is your opportunity. so I did that and I looked really hard at what I need from not only the job, right? The basics of it's gotta hit my comp requirement and for me it needs to be fully remote. but also that it was a hard line for me that the team had to be at least 50% women. my last few roles, I've been the only woman in the room. and that's tough because often when you're selling, you're the only woman in the room too. So then to not have folks understand potentially what you're going through or how to help you navigate a situation because folks think differently. Men and women think and process very differently. It's very scientific. so for me that that was a hard line. As well as is it a product that I care about? do the founders have a background that aligns with one that I think is going to be successful parents? I wanted to be in a place where there were other working parents. because again, if all of a sudden I'm on DD because my son's, you know, in the emergency room, or if I block my calendar because today's my daughter's kindergarten graduation. You're not gonna bother me because you know as a parent that that's that's off limits. So working in a place that I think where folks are in the same season of life was also really important for me.
Jolie Shapiro12:10.528
Yeah. That that's awesome. And it sa it sounds like you found it. Which is great. So
Heather Bell12:14.38
Yeah, absolutely. What I find interesting about where I am now is it's the most diverse team I've ever worked on, and not one person has talked about diversity. It just happens. They just hire good people.
Jolie Shapiro12:32.47
That's the kind of place you want to be in. Where there's there it's not necessary to have a DEI department. I think it's a repetition. DEI department. It's not necessary. Shows where my mind's at. It's not necessary to where it's not how may start over. no that I completely agree. It's the fact that it's not talked about is just that's how it should be.
Heather Bell12:34.456
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro12:59.968
Right person, right job, right butt, right seat. Doesn't really matter who you are, what colour, what or what race. Please cut that out cut that out cut in. Well, you know, what race, what sexuality, all that good stuff. That really that was a really interesting perspective. I was curious about you know, you're t you're talking a lot about being a woman in sales, which is I mean, I remember
Heather Bell13:02.67
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro13:29.195
When I was when I first started B2B SaaS, I won't age myself, but a few years ago, there was maybe like one AE out of like the twenty that was a woman. And I was curious what perspective you think you bring to sales. It's different. You mentioned that men and women think differently. And how do you think you show up in a different way?
Heather Bell13:55.896
Yeah. Perspective wise, I got I got feedback recently that I'm really great at making a room feel comfortable right away. And I think it's because I bring a patience to the room that this is my deal. I'm gonna I'm gonna be quiet. I'm gonna ask the right questions, I'm gonna give them space, and I'm truly going to listen. and people get that. right away. They get your the energy that you're putting out there when they get on a call. whereas I found even when I was younger, and men and women, there's no difference here. It's like if you are too hungry, it is not great. Right. I think the perspective that I'm bringing too is that I really do want to solve folks' problems. And if I'm not the person that can solve your problem, I often would send customers to a different pot prospects, I should say, to a different vendor. And then that almost always resulted in business for me in the future, where they said, Hey, you you actually wanted to help me. You didn't just want to sell me. and now I need what you're selling. So let me come back to you. it it happened many, many times.
Jolie Shapiro15:20.502
Yeah, I feel like it's definitely I mean, I don't know if I believe in karma, but I kinda believe in karma. Like you something Gerald Robin said. the my gosh. he's a founder. you might you probably know I'm the founder of Rev Genius. He always talks about give first and then, you know, it'll I'm paraphrasing, it's give to get, but like, you know, give and it'll come around back to you.
Heather Bell15:36.195
Hm.
Jolie Shapiro15:46.986
without expectation and I really I I really believe in that. Like sometimes we're not the right person. And that's okay. You know, like I just I was pitching to be a man, did I overextend my reach? I was I was pitching to be a like a actually kind of like your role.
Heather Bell15:57.795
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro16:13.962
Like a fractional sales something, something. And I'm like, you know, I what am I doing? I'm demand gen and I'm demand gen mops and ABX and why am I putting myself up for this role? You know, I mean I I could do it, but why wouldn't I give it to someone that could do it better? That'll serve the client better. Not just because I want, you know, more hours. It just I feel like And it serves the agency at the end, you know, the agency, the client, and yourself, because you can focus on things that you're good at versus like I mean, I'm very I'm a naturally competitive person, but you know, it you end up serving the the greater good. if you at least for me, like if I d I serve the greater good of my work because I wasn't putting myself first because I technically wasn't really is my scope.
Heather Bell16:50.562
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's tempting though to be selfish, right? To say, like, ooh, I want that. Ultimately, it's letting your ego get in the way of I should have that. I think a lot of times for sellers, it's also the scarcity mentality of I have to get this. and there is something, there's so much strength and confidence to know, hey, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing, and it takes consistency, but I can let that go.
Jolie Shapiro17:39.318
Yeah, for sure. No, that that makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate that. How did you get into sales? Like what what fueled that that kind of like that fire?
Heather Bell17:50.979
Yeah, it is not sexy. I I went to school. I was the first person in my family to go to four year university. So there was there was a lot of pressure to have success. And then frankly, I did not want to move home. So I looked at the programs at my university and said, Who has the highest placement rate after graduation? And it was the hospitality school of business. So I got my degree with a business with a focus on hospitality and I started in hotels and I looked at the hotel, I said, who makes the most money? And it was the sales team and that that was that.
Jolie Shapiro18:32.236
I love that. That's awesome. That I think it's I well if I want to use the word sexy, but it's it's definitely commendable. that's really cool. I'd love to hear if you're open, I love to hear kind of how not how are you not how you were raised, but like the lessons that you learned from your parents that you carried forward you know, to to your own family and your own journey.
Heather Bell18:33.976
Yeah. No thanks. Yeah. I think the strongest lessons actually came out for me from my parents in times that were not good. Like, I took my first role in s tech sales at a company called Bloom Spot, which was like group on for folks who are maybe of my vintage, where like group on and Bloom Spot and like this online deal thing was a thing. And I went there and I was selling hotels, basically ad space on Bloom Spot. And I was so excited. My friend brought me over and I was laid off after three months. I was freshly engaged and, you know, planning a wedding, which read, that's very expensive. And I felt like such a failure of, you know, I Thought I could do it. And I really put it all on me when in reality I was young and I didn't do my due diligence. The company just didn't have enough money. And the lesson I learned from that professionally is to do so much more work. But looking at my parents, you know, I called them crying, of course. And my dad was, you know, very wise in saying, like, kids. you're gonna be fine. Like you've always been fine. You worked your way through college. And it just means that like it's time for you to do your next thing. And I applied for open table that same day. And I was working for open table less than three weeks later. and I was with them then for seven years.
Jolie Shapiro20:55.794
That is a frickin' sweet story. I'm trying to curse less because I got yelled out by my mother. She I I compliment on my mother-in-law. I was like, you're F and the actual F bomb. You know, like you're F incredible. Like, 'cause she they took a real they're really sweet in helping plan helping us plan our reception. We were married, but we're doing like a party, Labor Day weekend.
Heather Bell20:59.79
Yeah. Mm-hmm. How fun.
Jolie Shapiro21:23.154
Yeah, it'll be fun. And my mom was like, She's her mother-in-law. But I'm like, well, I complimented her just with the F bomb. I mean, like, it's the same thing. but anyways, I digress. let's see what I had. I don't know. I'm trying to think. Yeah, I feel like a lot of people listen, but they don't actually hear you. And it sounds like your parents really heard you.
Heather Bell21:44.92
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I am really lucky to have parents who, you know, they sacrificed a ton for us. commuting and now being an adult and commuting, like they didn't want to do that, but they wanted to just like me, they wanted to give their kids more and raise them in a place where, you know, we were safe and we got a good education and I could have the opportunity to go to school. But now as an adult realizing what a sacrifice that was for them. So yeah. so yeah, I am I am lucky. I well also add I'm extra lucky when I moved across the country to be by my in-laws, my parents followed us. So now I'm raising my kids with all of their grandparents around, and their aunts and uncles. And it's that's something too that I wanted to give them because my parents weren't able to live by their family. So it is something that is is really great and we're doing something that I think is gonna be pretty memorable for the kids.
Jolie Shapiro22:57.638
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. So my parents live half the year in Miami. That's where I'm actually originally from. And half the year an hour and a half from us in Colorado in a ski town in Breckenridge. So my brother not gets them, but usually he's he's with them half the year and then I'm with them the other ha the other six months. they're typical snowbirds.
Heather Bell23:12.566
Mm. That's nice shared custody.
Jolie Shapiro23:24.878
It's your custody of my parents, yes. but it's yeah, I think in terms of you know, like that in like you can do it, like but actually mean it. Like my my parents actually I had I've had yeah, I didn't, you know, have the same socioeconomic growing up that you did. But I had a lot of different challenges. and they always used to call me little engine that could because starting like after graduation, I always had a job. Did I keep the job? Maybe not. But I always had a job. And that I feel like you can't I I mean you pr yeah.
Heather Bell24:09.502
That's huge.
Jolie Shapiro24:12.012
Yeah, it was with a mood disorder, it's my mom was like, Yeah, she told me like maybe a few weeks ago, she's like, Yeah, I thought we're gonna have to put you on permanent disability. I'm like, Thanks. no, this was like a few years ago. but I think that I don't know if you can and I love your opinion on this, I don't know if you can sh treat, teach that grit, that drive, that eff it I'm gonna do this mentality no matter how you grow up or what psychiatric issues you have or you know what chall you don't have to have psychiatric issues but you know like what challenges you face and everything in front of you. So I'd l I'd love to hear.
Heather Bell24:53.677
Yeah. Actually, agree with you when when I'm hiring, folks always say, What do you look for? And I say, number one is grit, because you can't teach it. And if somebody can teach it, I would I would love, I would love that. but I think it's something that inherently you have or you don't. I think I learned it from my parents by seeing their example. And it wasn't something that I even realized until I was an adult that That work ethic and that grit was just in me because that that's what adults did. That's what I saw adults do. but yeah, particularly for sellers, you have to have so much grit or folks in revenue in general, right? If if you're a CS CSM and you get off on another tough call and you're fighting NRR and ooh, you got another turn, you have to have grit. And It does have to come from within because your boss can't pep talk you into now that we're working from home into like just screwing off for the rest of the afternoon because you had a bad call, right? You have to have that fortitude to say, Nope, I I've gotta do my admin or make my dials or keep the calls I have on my calendar because I have to, I have to keep going.
Jolie Shapiro26:22.731
by the way, I'm not like doodling twiddling my thumbs. I'm writing questions in advance, so I don't do that like woo. just a heads up. yeah, no, totally agree. Maybe I could no, I can't teach grit.
Heather Bell26:28.344
Yeah. Got it. Okay.
Jolie Shapiro26:40.077
I I wouldn't even know where to start. But you know that's the thing. It's like, I want the job. It's like the same mentality. I have no idea where to start, but I want the job. question for you, just pivoting a little bit. When well it actually is tangentially related, probably, but when's the most burnt out you felt maybe ever? And how did you handle it?
Heather Bell27:03.436
Yeah. so working in tech for fifteen years I've had many times where I felt the most burnt out. I think there are two times, if it's okay, that I'll talk about it. The first is when I went back to work after my first child. again, I had four months. I was a field sales rep. So I was on the road for open table. And you know, what on the road meant was like a thousand plus miles a week. We're driving everywhere. And I was nursing, so I was. pumping in my car and in bathrooms and really trying to make that work because again, please see earlier note of pressure on women. And I just really wanted him to not have formula, which was wild. and then a sleep regression came and my son was not sleeping. And he and I were actually talking about this the other night and I was just up in the middle of the night crying because he literally would not sleep. And having to still go out and really get beat up. Open table was a hard sell at that time because there was so much competition and really having to prove value. And doing it in person is very different than someone's awful to you on Zoom. And then you're like, great, I'm gonna hang that up and maybe go cry. being in person is another level and restaurateurs are ruthless. so that was time one. And then time two was a totally different era. It was in my last gig. I had a big company, sorry, a big team, and they needed a lot. And I kind of knew this wasn't my place anymore. And I was really trying to make it work. I really wanted it to work because the folks that were on my team, I genuinely like really, really cared about. And thankfully I have a really great partner. And my husband said, Hey, like They're gonna be okay without you. You're not gonna be okay if you keep doing this. Like your kids, you're ending the day and you're kind of in a catatonic state. What are you gonna do if if you look back and say, damn, I I could have changed that and I could have done something different. And that's where again, like clicking and saying, This isn't my room anymore. I gotta get out of here, was was the right thing to do. Because now my life is very different. My energy is very different. My mood. I can enjoy making a board game with my kids on a weekday, whereas in my previous role I just didn't have anything left to give anybody else at the end of the day.
Jolie Shapiro29:56.456
Or running on fumes. I think both.
Heather Bell30:02.38
Yeah, absolutely.
Jolie Shapiro30:05.884
That's really So how did you I I heard, you know, that the two situations and they're both very unique. How did you handle each one? How did you escape not escape, that's the wrong word. How did you exit or take care of yourself to get through it?
Heather Bell30:24.696
Yeah. With the baby, unfortunately, that was just a time is gonna fix it. You can't I can't you can't make a baby sleep. But again, my husband was a really great partner and we figured out, you know, a schedule where we would take turns getting up with the baby and giving him bottles rather than me having to nurse him all the time. how did I come out of it in my last role? Was really realizing that. I had been in this situation before. Because I think everybody goes through this, where you're at a job and you realize, ooh, I I'm done, but I want to make it work because I see the hope and maybe we're gonna sell and or IPO and I really believe in the product. which all those things can be true while at the same same time, it not being the place that you should be anymore. And candidly having my husband call out, like, we've We've done this before because I am with grit, I'm like, I'm a fighter. I can like make this work and I'll get back to happy. and he just pointed to the examples from previous roles where he was like, Hey, you wrote it out for too long and you weren't happy. Don't you want to get back to happy sooner? Because it's in your control. So having that that partner that reminded me that like, Dude, you're a badass. You could work wherever you want to work. You don't have to stay in a place where, you know, it's not the right fit for you anymore was really great. And for for some people, you know, maybe you don't have a partner. Maybe that's your best friend that's giving you that reminder or your mentor. So I would say that the one thing is to just make sure you have people who are in your corner that you can talk to those situations about.
Jolie Shapiro32:20.604
Yeah. That totally makes sense. I think it can really come from anywhere. Honestly, even strangers. Like you're sitting next to someone like I'm thinking about Forrest Cup. You know, like sitting next sitting next to a stranger on a on a park bench and coming to a realization just by talking to someone that makes your day.
Heather Bell32:31.214
Mm.
Jolie Shapiro32:42.92
How do you how do you think that you took those lessons and taught, I know you're you know, VP sales, like how do you think you teach that to your team now, what you learned?
Heather Bell32:52.664
Yeah. One is around expectations. So when I first start with a team, I have maybe cheesy, maybe not, a presentation where I say, like, hey, here's my, here's my story. Here are my expectations of you. And then here's what you can expect of me. So that as we're on a journey together, ideally everyone, everyone's playing from the same deck, right? So if along the way what they need changes or what our expectations are change, we're communicating that. I have had a lot of team members where thankfully I'm I create a safe enough environment where they come to me and they they say, Hey, I I don't think I can do it here anymore. I don't think that this is maybe I don't want to be in sales anymore, right? That's always the easiest where it's like, okay, great, I can. I can help you. You're not going to go and be an AE at another company. but where they're trying to assess what to do. And I think as a leader, it's one of the most important things that you can do is be a sounding board and not just think of the company and think about, hey, I might, I might lose this person. If you put people first and what their needs are as people, you're not only gonna have higher retention on your team and likely people you can hire at your next company, but also you're gonna have a team where people feel really psychologically safe and they can come to you. And maybe as a manager, you can help solve the problem that they have that they feel like isn't solvable in their current role. Maybe it is something that you can fix and and maybe it's not, but you need to make the space for them to be able to talk about it.
Jolie Shapiro34:43.642
for sure. And I'm sure I can speak for a lot of people where we've all had the opposite. for example, one of my very first jobs at an agency, I stayed there a year. I won't get into really what happened, but the p I'll get into the punchline. So I stayed there for a year. The girl after me ran out of the office crying after a month because the ab our boss was so abusive. And that ki I mean at twenty five, you know, that that can really either it's really formative, you know. Like it the bosses that you have are r that really I don't know if I mean what am I trying to say? I think the bosses that you have really shape you into the leader that you become.
Heather Bell35:23.758
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For the negative and the positive, where you're like, I don't wanna copy that behavior. So I always say as a seller and as a leader, I like to steal the things that look good and work well. so frankly, like creating that safe space is something that I got from a boss at Open Table where, you know, he and I were friends. and he he did also make a space though for me to try different things there. I tried a partnership role while also being an AE. And I tried, you know, working with different teams. He made that space, but then also said eventually, like, I think you're done here. Like w what are you gonna do? and then was really formative in helping me find the next role that really launched like my enterprise SaaS career.
Jolie Shapiro36:36.124
That's that's a good boss. I think I told this I might have told the story. I mean, since it's been five months, I can't remember. But so I actually had a boss that said he gave me a month's heads up that our biggest client was leaving. And he said
Heather Bell36:38.019
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro36:55.942
You're not on the chop. I wasn't on chopping clock. Excuse me. Was not on the chopping block be because of performance. It's just the way, you know, some agen agencies you know, agency life. And he said, Look, start looking now. You have a month. And that people don't that doesn't happen often. And I'm still grateful for him t to this day because that's I actually started my my consulting business because of that. I started
Heather Bell37:05.357
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro37:25.478
you know, getting clients and sl very slowly but truly. But but, you know, reaching out to c different agencies that I'd worked with or just kind of exploring and a year later I you know I have equivalent to full time with consulting. Thank you. I appreciate that. And it's I I thank him because he gave me that heads up. but it it does to your point it does take a lot of grit.
Heather Bell37:41.134
That's incredible.
Jolie Shapiro37:53.673
full-time consulting, kind of anything you do. I want to get your opinion on this too. Something that I gosh, like the what is that? It's so AI. It's something that I always think about. But it's actually it actually is something I always think about. It crosses my mind a lot. So wanna get your opinion on sometimes there are things you can't beat.
Heather Bell37:54.008
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro38:19.528
Do you have an example of that that that you're willing to share? Or an example from a friend or just kind of your opinion? Something that crosses my mind a lot.
Heather Bell38:24.078
Yeah. Yeah, I think right now AI is the thing that I think a lot of folks were seeing all these layoffs happen and it's scary. So that's an example of we can't beat it. Not that we should, but it's a scary environment. Ultimately it's the economy. And there are always going to be external conditions that you can't you can't beat, right? So for example, a few companies ago, it was a really competitive space. When I had first started there, we had so much money and it was so great. And and then the economy shifted and people just didn't need what we were selling anymore. And it and it was competitive and other people were doing it better. And there are situations where it doesn't matter how great you are at your job, there are external forces that you cannot control. related to the economy, I have lots of friends who are in the public sector and funding is just going away and their jobs are just disappearing. That is not because they're not good at their jobs and that's not because they don't have grit. It's because it's just a factor that's bigger than you and bigger than the company and bigger than your control.
Jolie Shapiro39:55.472
That I couldn't have said it better. So I'm just not gonna respond. no, I'm totally kidding. But
Heather Bell40:01.601
I think it's something too. Like, I know we talked a little bit about COVID. COVID is another thing where the biggest lesson that I got from it is you cannot know what to expect ever. Yes, scientists expected maybe a large pandemic, but the way that it changed our lives, no one could have expected it. And if you are ready to kind of ride with the unexpected and make the best of the situation or do whatever you can to survive. That that's the thing that I've learned from COVID. I'm living a life that I never know. If you told me 10 years ago that I would be on the East Coast and kind of in the middle of nowhere, I would have said, You're a liar. I will never leave California. But I learned a lot from again these external factors that I couldn't control.
Jolie Shapiro40:57.862
Yeah. It's funny, everyone always I tell it tells to everyone on the podcast, but I always get the headline right at the end. Like right at the end. It's what did I write down? Ride ride with the unexpected or ride the unexpected. Something like that. Yeah, I'll I'll
Heather Bell41:06.211
Mm. Ooh, I said it and I don't even know what I said, so let's we'll have to go to the recording.
Jolie Shapiro41:20.018
Finagle that. I'm like, what did I write? I can barely read my own handwriting. it looks like a like, what do I call it? John Nash. anyways, this was great. would love to know. Thank you so much again for for being a listener on the show and for coming on. where can we find you?
Heather Bell41:28.12
Mm. yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Heather Bell and I'm currently working for Vector. So if you are in Demand Gen, I'll make I'll make the shameless plug as a seller. if you're a demand, if you're in demand gen or leading a marketing team, we're an incredible partner for folks who are looking to do contact level marketing.
Jolie Shapiro42:05.855
Awesome, thank you so much Heather.
Heather Bell42:07.714
Yeah, thanks Julie.