Jolie Shapiro00:01.484
Hey y'all, welcome to the Revenue Mind Podcast. I'm Julie, your host. It's a podcast where we talk all things mental health. I'm with actually I like flipped it. See, I told you it's gonna be twice. I actually jinx that, so it's gonna be twice. I yeah, no, it always takes me two two or three times. I don't know. I should probably like write it right on my whiteboard. anyways. All right, this wife and editor. all right, so what's all right
Ian Koniak00:13.179
You called you called it.
Jolie Shapiro00:30.734
Hey everyone, welcome to the Revenue Mind Told you three times. Okay. Hey everyone, welcome to the Revenue Mind Podcast. I'm Julie your host and with us is Ian. This is a podcast where we talk all things mental health and super excited to have you on the show.
Ian Koniak00:44.751
Great to be here.
Jolie Shapiro00:46.325
Yeah, yeah. Thanks so much for for responding. I know, you know, typically you get a lot of requests. I really appreciate you being on and hopping on the this podcast.
Ian Koniak00:55.299
Happy to help. Anytime I can pay it forward with anything mental health, I try to do so.
Jolie Shapiro01:00.981
Awesome, awesome. So the first question I usually start with, and I have quite a few questions, but we'll we'll kind of riff on on different ones. what makes you you?
Ian Koniak01:11.395
I think authenticity. I think probably if I had to think about my superpower or what makes me relatable, it it's it's authenticity. I think I've gone through a lot of struggles, you know, mentally, physically, spiritually, and it's like I am the human struggle. That that's what I think is interesting, is like. My life is a is a story of overcoming adversity or overcoming struggle. And I'm not afraid. in fact, I I'm very open about sharing some of these struggles. So, the purpose in doing so is to help people maybe who are in the position that I once was. And I think what's unique about me is I just have a lot of very interesting stories, and my life story is is is quite fascinating. And if you think about it, it's like, well, this this how could this happen to one person, you know, from you know, I lived in Venezuela for a year as a as a teacher, was in Australia for a year, just just had a crazy, some crazy relationships, was struggled with addiction, somehow got into sales and was the number one global performer at Salesforce and almost lost my my marriage. I you know, there I met my wife at Tony Robbins. She was a firewalk partner. It's you can't make these things up. So when I think about what makes me, me, it's like this relatability of the human struggle and kind of I can connect to people and see them for where they're at because I've been there most likely, or at least can empathize with with that position from some of the experiences that I've had in in my life.
Jolie Shapiro03:01.012
That's amazing. I I feel like maybe we're not two peas in a pod, but that's actually the very reason I started this podcast was to help people like myself. I have maybe n obviously not the same story, but quite a story as well. And I think paying it forward really the past two years has been has been something I never could have dreamed of with this and talking to people like you. So
Ian Koniak03:25.967
Well, if you think about it, a lot of our stories come from being focused on the self, focused on what we want, pursuit of our own happiness, pursuit of what we think we make us happy. And then we get there and it's like, that wasn't it, and then go somewhere else. that wasn't it. And it's like that's like the story of my life is all these experiences are me chasing this thing that ironically was available to me the whole time. I just didn't know it. But I I I mean, I read my earliest journals from like high school and it was like I'm not happy here and then you know, I don't want to be here and I don't it was this crazy like grass is greener on the other side. And and and then I realized it wasn't greener on the other side. So yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And that that if there's addiction, I know we have some addiction stories as well. And I think if there's any telltale of like someone who's addicted, it's like they need that intoxication with like feeling and needing to feel alive and oftentimes they turn to things that aren't healthy in in order to feel and and so I I think we're probably not that far apart in in that sense.
Jolie Shapiro04:33.628
Yeah, definitely. It's interesting. For me, it was actually not to feel. It was actually to shut my brain off. But to your point, like chasing that I call it chasing the high. It could be literally anything. Like I will well, I mean I'm obviously literally anything, a lot of AA programs. But like I went from you know, one substance to another addiction and then I now I'm cros now I cross swapped actually wanted to cross swap to to cycling, so now I'm like cycling and hiking all the time. So like I have to constantly be doing something. Or else I go crazy.
Ian Koniak05:06.499
Nice. Yeah. I just signed up for a triathlon, so I could I can relate to that.
Jolie Shapiro05:13.0
nice. That's awesome. How how's training going?
Ian Koniak05:15.951
I just ran three point six miles before this podcast and I started swimming recently. I'm petrified of swimming in the open water and I don't know what I'm doing with swimming. So it's gonna be a a journey, a learning journey of being able to learn the bike. I don't own a road bike, learn to swim. I'm just to your point, it's like needing that thing to go after. it's very healthy if you set goals that are health or family or spiritual related, but when it's When it's not and you're just searching for something, it's like you're filling a void and and it's both. You wanna feel, but you also wanna avoid the feelings that come when you're bored or restless or doing nothing. So it is, I think both. I think it wasn't numbing necessarily. I just I couldn't be still in and it wasn't I wasn't even aware enough to know that I was not wanting to feel anything. I just didn't like how I feel when I wasn't high or or or doing something new and exciting. I I I'll just call it that.
Jolie Shapiro06:21.123
Yeah, exactly. It's like you don't well for me, I don't want to be my own head. So it's like constantly doing something. So I have a few questions. if you any you want to this is off the record. Anything you want to skip just be like no. Okay, so no no, it's just it's
Ian Koniak06:24.911
Yeah. That's right. I I I think I think I'll be okay. I think I've never had a podcast that I've gone on that I haven't shared, so we'll see if you can be the first to break me.
Jolie Shapiro06:42.583
Okay. Okay, no, I don't want to be the first to break you, but
Ian Koniak06:47.523
I mean for me to say that's off limits. I I we'll see. I'd be surprised I s I'd be surprised if you you have anything off limits, but we'll let go for it.
Jolie Shapiro06:55.48
I won't I won't ask if wait, no, I'm not gonna say it on on the recording, never mind. okay. So have a couple questions. The first one is when you're closing the biggest deals of your life and quietly falling apart at the same time, did anyone actually know? Like, for example, who got to see the real you and what did keeping that hidden take out of you?
Ian Koniak07:00.763
They're fine. It's interesting because the quietly falling apart piece, I wasn't aware that I was quietly falling apart at the time when I was closing the biggest deals of my life. I was in addiction mode heavily during my peak years in in Salesforce. So, you know, in in step one, we, you know, we admit our lives are unmanageable. I I would had not admitted Quietly falling apart feels like unmanageable. And I I did not think my life was unmanageable. In fact, I thought I was pretty much, you know, top of the world, the the shit. So what what was happening is I was in this deeply stressful and high pressure situation where I was working a lot, traveling a lot, had a lot of executives from Salesforce involved in the deals, and I had to keep it together, frankly. And so I'd keep it together. I was the the definition of of a a functioning addict, if if you want to call it that. But then I would just once I had a chance to relax or you know escape really this this you know because I had so much pressure myself, I would do it in in in kind of these bingey ways. So just to give you an example, yeah, this is this is I d I don't love talking about it, but it's it's what happened. So like one of the the times in 2018, I think it was, I I was hosting like people, global executives from all around the world at our company conference called Dream Force. And there was like a Metallica concert and I had clients that I brought there and you know, I was drinking and and partying with them. And then The end of the night, like I snuck off by myself and I went to a strip club and no one kind of knew it. Right. And then I'd wake up and I'd host all these people again. And it was like this stress relief through, you know, getting getting drunk or high or or or attention from women or any any of these things that I was doing. And it was just a cycle that it was in. It was very much a work hard, play hard. Type of cycle. And that was a cycle I was in for, I'd say the better part of 20 years in in sales. so it wasn't like a daily thing for me. It was like a build-up, build up, build up, and then mess up. Build up and and you have to understand, I'm married, I have kids, you know. So, so me doing these things is is being kept secret at the time. I'm not sharing this with my wife or. anything like that. So it it it's it's kind of like my my secret that I'm, you know, that I'm hiding because I justify it or rationalize it. Like, well, I'm working so hard and I'm entitled to have my fun or whatever. But it it wasn't, I didn't feel like I was falling apart at the time. It was only till I, you know, hit hit a bottom when I realized that my life was unmanageable. But I think because I had got on this way for so long. I remember so many presidents clubs trips. I would go and there was one, one other story. I was in it was the Bahamas and we were gonna plan like this crazy golf course and I was playing with the executives and I sit up drinking all night and gambling all night. And I totally missed this golf tournament that was with all the execs and I couldn't even get out of bed. And like that was that was normal for me at these presidents clubs. So I I I have you know, literally countless stories like that. But it was always in a I'd say in a environment where somehow I I got out somehow I was able to function and not get fired and just got so many like get out of jail free cards dealt to me. I I had been yeah, I I I can give lots of stories, but like I I just got away with a lot of shit. And so I kept doing it until, like I said, until it nearly cost me my family. And then that was when I got sober. So yeah, I would I would just say it was like it was the normal for me. I I didn't realize I was falling apart. It's a long answer to your question, but that's that's the true answer.
Jolie Shapiro11:50.695
No, that's a that's a incredible answer and thank you so much for for being so open and honest. One sec one sec. I didn't put my phone on D and D.
Ian Koniak12:00.891
You're good.
Jolie Shapiro12:09.184
Just one second. I'm so sorry about that. my gosh. I yeah, I I'm really hoping that it uploaded. So of course I I'm trying to be all cool and do this for my phone with like you should see my setup. I'm trying to be all cool and do this for my phone with like the hold on me one second.
Ian Koniak13:24.069
Good. Riverside's still going.
Jolie Shapiro13:44.243
Yeah, but it started over like twice. So we should be we should be fine. I think it
Ian Koniak13:46.351
Really? On my on my side it shows it shows thirteen fifty. It hasn't
Jolie Shapiro13:52.858
good, okay, so it's just me. Alright, okay, so it's probably it's gonna upload multiple times. Sorry once
Ian Koniak13:55.408
Yeah. Yeah, my side is continuous, so should be able to edit it, I'm guessing.
Jolie Shapiro14:01.141
Good. yeah, for sure. My editor rocks. He's used to my mess my messes. Okay, so so sorry about that. You're like give me the sea like this super open, like here's my heart and my guts and my soul. And I'm like, Thank you so much. Incredible answer, Alyssa. Sorry, I but you not disturb. Okay. So so man. well. Okay. thank you so much. I've
Ian Koniak14:19.663
We put it on we put it on together. That's the irony. Deep breath, deep breath.
Jolie Shapiro14:30.495
Literally thirty three episodes and I still can't do this. I st I still get nervous. it thank you. all right, so okay, Salesforce. I had a follow-up question. Then like people start calling, I'm like, all of you. Leave me alone. all right, cool. Just gonna move on. Cool. Wissa again. I swear our statics are nuts. okay. Anyways, thank you so much for your bravery and your honesty opening up
Ian Koniak14:35.495
That's the charm.
Jolie Shapiro14:59.787
with that story that was I'm sure a lot of people unfortunately and fortunately can relate.
Ian Koniak15:06.607
I think in sales and in business for sure.
Jolie Shapiro15:11.025
I remember I remember I was in B2B SaaS working with the sales teams for a very long time and there was qu I mean it's kinda dorky to say, but you know, like the sales bro culture and the president's club and like you know the large hyper growth SaaS companies. I mean, you have the sales forces, but you also have like the min market to like baby enterprise where it's
Ian Koniak15:25.68
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro15:38.544
double, triple, double or triple, triple, double or whatever that expression is. And you know, people are it's almost like being in an investment bank. I kinda look at the two like a little bit of that of the same. not the same, but similarities. What are your what are your thoughts on that? And like that hustle bro sales culture.
Ian Koniak15:55.984
I think I think I lived that. I think I was the the the king bro. I mean it it literally was my life. It's mostly men and you know, people with egos and you put money in the equation. It's like boys who never grew up that are now in these high paying jobs and you see it like Wolf of Wall Street or you know, you see this this culture of hard partying and celebration and drugs and alcohol and I think it is accurate. at least at Salesforce, that was that was very common. and I'm sure in tech, even in smaller companies, it's it's the same thing. It's the same industry, same type of pay, same, if anything, the bigger companies. I mean, we had like alcohol in the office and at the end of the year parties they would everyone would be drinking in the office. And it was, it was I think eventually got banned because so many people got in trouble, but I I can't tell you how many stories I have throughout my career of of people getting fired for inappropriate comments or conduct or sexual you know abuse. We'll just call it that, un unwanted advances or touching. it it happens all the time. And it happens with senior level leaders too in in you know, there's a lot of lawsuits and settlements and the stuff never reaches the public because it settles and people sign NDAs and and they can't talk about it. But I I having coached now thousands of of tech sellers, I I hear the stories firsthand and I think it's not just you know, it's not just sales, it's athletics, it's politics, it's anyone who has power and money and and a lack of morals who put You know, you put those ingredients together, it makes for bad behavior. So I I for like I said, my mine my stories were not such where I, you know, where I got fired or anything like that, but I I definitely can relate to that party culture and the tech bro culture because I lived it for 20 years.
Jolie Shapiro18:14.492
You're an anti attack bro now.
Ian Koniak18:16.419
I am the opposite now. I'm a family man. I'm a man of God and I I converted. I got baptized a year and a half ago and I I genuinely my my heart's desire is to to model a different way to live and very much centered around values versus greed and excess.
Jolie Shapiro18:38.659
Love that. Did I'm assuming well I don't want to make assumptions. Did you learn that through the twelve step program?
Ian Koniak18:43.203
That's where it all started. Yeah. I think it was a combination. I mean, I think humility is the foundation of getting sober, right? And and then spirituality is is the is the un underlying medicine. It i is having, you know, a a belief that a higher power can restore you to sanity and can be able to do what I couldn't do on my own. So I think spirituality was was the yeah, I think if I if I think about like my old life versus my new life, it started when I got sober six and a half years ago. It started When I got into twelve steps. That's when my values shifted overnight into you know, I'm Christian and the values is is what what in Christianity is called the fruit of the spirit, which is which is self-control and kindness and humility and righteousness and patience and honesty, integrity. You know, the these values which are more Godly values versus human values, I I was not living and I was living in shame where I did these things and I'd lock the skeletons in the closet and I'd go about my life like everyone was everything was normal. But then underneath the surface, I had all these secrets. And so part of my recovery was opening up and sharing my my darkest secrets with my my wife and my therapist and my making amends to people that I had harmed. So it it it it kind of forced the spiritual journey on me because I was so committed to getting sober. But yeah, I would a hundred percent attribute my shift in values and anti tech bro. I mean I I think I think it it's part of the journey. I've also done men's work with with men's groups. I've I've had a spiritual coach. I have Business that is a coaching business where I get to serve people and help them live the life that they want for a living. So that's helped having a career that I I'm devoted to service. going on podcasts like these, like I'm just my life is just very different. There's still remnants of addiction, and there's certainly behaviors that are, you know, we're we're human, we're not perfect, but I I strive when I when I slip, It it's very evident to me that that it's out of integrity and and it's like, okay, what's going on? And then I go lean into spirituality again because I'm like, something's off here. So I think it's a lifelong honestly, like you're not like fixed, you don't snap a finger and become this other person. I think it's more like this lifelong pursuit of becoming the person that you're proud of, and then having those slips and those. you know, those moments where you're out of integrity be few and far between. That to me is like a sign that I'm on the right track versus like, you know, having them be more daily. Cause it's not just like addiction. It's not just using. It's like temper. It's how you talk to people. It's how you feel. You know, I I don't know about you, Jolie, but like I feel my addict coming on. Like I feel the attic coming on when it's like this restless irritability, distractedness, inability to focus on like I call it my addict, but To me, yeah, it's it's more like there's a deep awareness of these feelings because I'm not medicating and and escaping. So I can tune attune to how I'm feeling and then and then find the right medicine. Or a lot of times the medicine is like pulling back and it's like less activities, less stress, less demands. That to me is where a lot of the healing occurs is when I'm doing less, not more, you know?
Jolie Shapiro22:43.177
I was just unmuting, I'm like boop, boop, boop. no, that that totally makes sense for me. I I yeah, I guess I probably do get irritable when I'm not you know, close to the close to the twelve steps. I start getting I like I like how you you said the addict brain or your addict comes back. Yeah.
Ian Koniak23:01.059
Yeah. My addict. Yeah. My addict like wants to do something. It like needs to like be doing something. That's the only way to describe it. And it's like, okay, if I have this like deep need, like where's that gonna take me? Usually it's probably not good places. Now it's like my phone or I'll just scroll or something like that. That's not as harmful as, you know, going to a strip club, but it it it's or getting drunk or s smoking weed or whatever, but it's it's absolutely the same.
Jolie Shapiro23:07.516
Exactly.
Ian Koniak23:30.267
place, I'm just not going to the the dark side. I'm just going to to numbing out in a different way.
Jolie Shapiro23:38.141
Yeah, exactly. I feel like the whole thing with numbing out I don't think it's just addicts, you know. I think it's I mean the the Doom scrolling in general, I have I have never seen there's someone I've met, I have never seen that I just spent like a few days with them. I've never seen someone Doom scroll or Doom Scroll, quote unquote, or scroll through their phone so much with YouTube shorts, TikTok shorts, like all and like how how are how are you like how how is your brain even functioning right now?
Ian Koniak23:46.915
It's not it's not. It's not.
Jolie Shapiro24:11.793
It's that sam it's exactly, yeah. It's it's the same numbing out.
Ian Koniak24:15.097
Not, it's not. You're just kind of consuming. There's not really any thinking. You just there's no I think the function, I think, like proactively using your brain. You're not. You're just like taking stuff in. Yeah, it's it's it's it is addiction. Phone addiction is is very real. and I I think addiction if I if I had to, you know, guess, I'd say the majority of people are addicts. And the word addict gets a bad rap because it's associated with
Jolie Shapiro24:19.93
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
Ian Koniak24:45.081
you know, being in the street shooting up heroin. But the truth is a lot of people are addicted to food or they're addicted to their phones or they're addicted to shopping or they're addicted to something maybe maybe they're addicted to work, right? It it it's just they didn't reach a bottom where they felt like it was getting in the way. But I I can't tell you how many people I mean half of marriages end in divorce, right? Why are people getting divorced? Well lot of the times it's disconnected, right? They're not connected with their partner 'cause they're in their own world and they're doing their own thing. And it's like the opposite of addiction is connection. Right. And so if you think about being isolated and in your head and disconnected, like then a lot of people probably meet that definition, you know?
Jolie Shapiro25:35.606
for sure. Yeah. I so when I was an AA my or program, I so I didn't necessarily go after the spirituality, but I really they s my mom always said you can pick a rock, just pick something. So my thing was connection. So the community was actually my anchor. And since then I have it actually inspired the podcast. I did the nineteen ninety and then a couple of years later, after like
Ian Koniak25:53.744
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro26:04.34
like 10 twenty four or yeah 10 twenty four after like three tech layoffs or or three layoffs during the tech recession. I'm like, I'm gonna start a podcast. You know, 'cause I I've I've quite a story as well. and I like to your point that you said earlier, like it allows you to empathi emphasize? Empathize. There we go. It allows you to empathize with people. I think that and I feel like I don't know, when I get around my my sober friends, we I don't know if this happens to you, but we
Ian Koniak26:12.603
Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro26:33.36
I'm laughing 'cause it's so bad. We kinda just like it's not really war stories, but it's like like you're around your people, so you're like, Yeah, I did it or I did it. I don't know if that happens to you, but I it it's not good to do war stories, but sometimes it's like we call it trauma dumping, where we're just like kinda spitball all of our shit. 'Cause you're
Ian Koniak26:56.483
It's hard to believe, you know, some of the stuff. And it's like I it's probably healthier to share some of that and like remind yourself of who you were so you don't go back versus locking it up. So I I don't know if it's if it's that unhealthy to to share the war stories. But I I for a while when I was sober, it's like I couldn't even think about like what I had done or I didn't want to like it was like locked. I mean I shared everything obviously with you know, with the twelve steps and with my wife. I I had to do a confessional as part of my
Jolie Shapiro27:17.956
Mm-hmm.
Ian Koniak27:26.177
as part of my recovery and therapy, is I had to go literally tell my wife everything I had ever done in secret. And that was like the hardest thing I'd ever done because, you know, I was I was my addiction was compulsive sexual behaviors. So I was watching porn and going to strip clubs and webcams and all kinds of, you know, activities that that were not okay in a marriage, in my opinion, even though they are normalized. I knew my wife wasn't okay with me watching porn or certainly the type of porn where there's people on camera. that that's that's not you know that's not okay. She told me when we got married, she's like, Ian, please don't go to a strip club, please, for your bachelor party. She begged me and I'm like, what's the big deal? And she said, Ian, that's cheating. I said, no, it's not. I'm not kissing anyone. I'm not, you know, doing anything with them. And she's like, I think it's cheating to look at another n woman that's naked that's not your wife. And I totally dismissed it. I didn't really didn't really my wife's a devout Christian and I didn't really understand what she meant. because I had never read the Bible. I had never had any spirituality or religion in my life. So I just kinda like said, okay, well, I'll just do it in secret. So I'd every few months I'd kind of So I had to go back and look at every single time I had gone and pull up old credit card bills and pull up old bank statements and like anytime I had spent money at like 11 p.m. I'm like, that can't be good. So that was like the hardest thing in the world. It was the hardest thing in the world. And once I did that, you know, I I knew that she could leave me if she wanted to because I had kept all these secrets. And for a while we were separated. We were, you know, we were separated and She came back. she came back and she gave me a chance because I had stopped completely and I still stopped. It's been six and a half years and by God's grace, I I I don't participate in any of those activities anymore. But I I I just didn't want to go back after having that traumatic experience of like having to share with my best friend and my my love the things I had done that were betrayal for her. It was like I couldn't even look. It was like a different person had done those things. It felt like that wasn't me. It was a different person entirely. It was completely out of body. and it still feels that way. I I I still do not know how I could have done the crazy things that I did in my life. and I haven't even scratched the surface and I probably won't go on the air and share the craziest of stories because there's a lot of like, we'll just call it sales activity that that is not selling software. So yeah, I could have I could have been arrested. I could have been killed. I could have to think that like I made it out somehow and was able to get to like not just I mean I had 70 employees at Rico. I was running a sixty million dollar company. Then I go to Salesforce and then I, you know, get sober and like, you know, now I'm running a A fortune, not fortune, a Inc. 5000 coaching business. We are the fastest growing coaching company in the world. We just made the Inc. 5000 for the second year in a row. So how the hell does that happen to someone who has doing these th I don't know. I just say it's a testimony to God and that I've been protected and watched and that there's bigger plans for my life. And those plans are about showing people a better way to live. And those plans are about Helping people experience the joy, the love, the grace that comes on the other side of recovery and that comes from living a life that you're proud of.
Jolie Shapiro31:36.048
Love that. I yeah, there were plenty of I won't even get into it either. I don't have a I d I really should be dead. I I I should be dead. I should I should not be on this earth right now. Now I did survive a divorce, so there was that. My marriage should not last. you know, you were being so open, so I figured I'd share. I actually I got in a car accident. I was two years dry and went to a work party and had like I don't
Ian Koniak31:40.251
Yeah. It's yeah, totally.
Jolie Shapiro32:06.829
One, two drinks, but because of the medications I'm on, it like amplifies it by like four. So it's like having six drinks, if that's the right math. And got in the car and I went to to the back road through the back roads, I think. That the some I don't know what was watching out, something was watching out. Universe God, whatever you want to call it. I took the back roads and slammed into probably a couple things. Wires were busted, drove an hour home.
Ian Koniak32:11.801
Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro32:35.545
And I was still okay. If I took the heroid, gone.
Ian Koniak32:39.555
Yeah, I I crashed my car into a tree going 50 miles an hour when I was 25, pissed drunk out of my head. So it's like that. And somehow, like we it was the car was smashed up like an accordion, airbags went off, and I was with the buddy, and like somehow, I think because we were so drunk and loose, our bodies were just really flexible. And you know, I I got out of it. And actually the cops pulled us over on the way home. We were walking home. The cars crashed. This is just another example of getting lucky. But the car was smashed and the cops were on their way to the scene of the accident. One of the homeowners, it was right in front of someone's house. And one of the homeowners called the cops and the cops saw us walking and they pulled us over, put the lights on us, made us sit up in the curb, and they said, Excuse me, guys, we just got a call about an accident that two two men fled the scene right near here. Do you guys know anything about it? And I looked the officer in the eyes and I said, I don't know what you're talking about. It's like, where are you coming from? I'm like, we just went out and we're walking home. And the cops had been on their way. They hadn't gotten to the car. They hadn't been able to check the license plate or the registration of the car. So they couldn't connect us at all. They took our IDs and left. And that was literally went, went, went to sleep, went back the next day. The car had been impounded. they had given a it was like a misdemeanor hit and run. the tree was the hit. It wasn't a person. It was a it was a tree that was hit. And they were saying it's damaged property. And I got an attorney. I just told him I fell asleep and they couldn't prove I was drunk. He's like, look me in the eyes, tell me the truth. I'm like, I fell asleep. And I had no problem lying to like cover my tracks. But I not only should I have been dead, I should have gotten a DOI. I should have you know been arrested. Like I I just can't tell you if I think back to those things, It was just a different person in a different world and I I th I I can't say I'm ashamed of those things 'cause I don't carry shame and and I think shame is the lowest grade emotion that anybody can have. But I I I would say I'm shocked. I'm shocked that I could do those things and knowing who I am now and how healthy I am now and how committed I am, as a as a husband, as a father and as a Christian, I I I think that somehow I I I just had angels watching over me or or what. And and I can name, you know, I I write these things down, but like I call them God shots. It's like times when I was like protected. And it's like it's it's really for me it's encouraging. It gives me a lot of faith and hope that my life has purpose and I'm here for a reason. and and I've made it out stronger, you know, and I yet to be tur determined. But I started the podcast too and You know, I I wanna write a book about some of the stuff, the transformation that I had. But like I'm I'm definitely committed to like helping people not live in the way that is is destructive and empty. And yeah, I had a lot of money and success, but I inside was I was empty inside.
Jolie Shapiro35:55.702
Yeah, that that was a that was beautiful. I couldn't said that better. I I think what really im impress isn't even the right word, but what I think what gets to me the most and what makes me, you know, I I don't know if you have that feeling in a A or sorry, a program where it's like you have kind of like this who like kind of in your chest when you're in different places. I don't know if it's ever happened to you. But it happened to me as I was listening to your story, and I just think what's so amazing is that You know, you took one life and you just completely transformed it to another. And I think a lot of that was, you know, you could call it divine intervention, God shots, but really in my opinion all the above, you know, but your bravery to be able to do that and that grit and that, you know, go get I'm that's corny, but you know, like my parents say little engine my yeah, my I have a ton too. Like my parents always call me the little engine that could, you know, from going to permanent
Ian Koniak36:45.699
Yeah. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro36:54.016
per almost permanent disability to now. You know, it's like, We made it. but well.
Ian Koniak36:59.183
Yeah, the will the will and the desire to to Yeah, I think knock on wood. Hopefully this wasn't wouldn't happen, but I I think optimism and hope and and action, you can you can achieve anything. I really believe that.
Jolie Shapiro37:17.044
for sure. I'm gonna just take a look at the questions and see which ones are relevant because you probably answered a lot of them. just give me I'm just looking over.
Ian Koniak37:22.169
Well, if if it would be helpful too, I'm happy to share kind of how the transformation I'm happy to share the rock bottom if it's helpful for I don't I don't mind.
Jolie Shapiro37:27.53
Are you are you sure? I mean we can. I have a I had a rock bottom too that I but I'm not I mean Okay. it's like right there. Yeah, it's right there. let's see.
Ian Koniak37:33.051
It's up to you. Look at look at the questions and see and that there's sales questions or revenue or questions. Yeah. Go for it.
Jolie Shapiro37:45.062
I don't like these questions. I like I l this is why I do what makes you you because it's so like it's so much more organic than like question one, question two. That's how I first started and it was like total bullshit.
Ian Koniak37:55.996
I like just having a conversation and yeah, I like just having a conversation. If I do like a fireside chat I'll have questions, but like the podcast I tend to I tend to just kinda riff it. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro38:02.26
Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, or just roof. Yeah. Yeah. This I'm looking at this, I'm like, ugh, no. yeah, let's my editor can like bring this to the to a different section. yeah, so speaking of, would love to hear I know you mentioned that you were open to sharing your rock bottom. That would be that'd be wonderful for the listeners just to just to relate in here.
Ian Koniak38:24.729
Yeah, so for I wanna like be clear on something. I think when you pe a lot of people wanna change. A lot of people, you know, feel like they have some bad habits or vices or addictions and like I wanna change, but you know, I've tried and yeah, I can't necessarily do it on my own, but then maybe it's not such a big deal or maybe I'm not ready and there's a lot of justifications. And if you go into these rooms, these these twelve-step rooms, these AA rooms and For anyone who again, who who's sober curious, AA is Alcoholics Anonymous, but if you want to stick a lot of different letters in front of AA, the these are any addiction. So MA would be marijuana anonymous for people who smoke weed and maybe don't want to smoke every day or feel like it's maybe not helping them become the the person they're meant to be, right? GA would be people who might gamble, might go online and gamble or bet a bunch on the World Cup and you're just a degenerate gambler. Or it could be overeaters anonymous or shopaholics anonymous or in my case, sex addicts anonymous. And and that's anyone who would would would engage in any type of compulsive mass mass compulsive sexual behavior. So it could be something like pornography use where they're using it regularly in secret and you know if if you don't Want to stop, fair enough. But in my case, you know, I I did want to stop because it led to other things. It led to me going to strip clubs and in some cases it led me to go on on webcams. And so I was in the program called SAA, which is basically anyone who who seeks to stop watching porn or stop engaging act in activities that are out of integrity with their relationship. So for me it was out of integrity. I I don't know how I would do it if I was single, but I I'd say for most for many married men, the the stuff that they're doing is in private. They're not telling their partners. And that was the the case for me. I wasn't sharing what I was looking at or what I was doing with my wife because I knew she wouldn't be okay with it. And I and I I think that's probably the case for most people. I would say no judgment here if you want to share openly with your partner what you do or what they do, and they're cool with you going on OnlyFans and looking at other women, like more power to you guys. But that's not the case. With the vast majority of men that are in in the program that I'm I'm in, SAA. They're they're like, I did this stuff in secret, I didn't tell my wife, and she found out, and it it it nearly cost or it did cost our marriage, right? So think of, you know, affair partners, think of strip clubs, massage parlors, prostitution, pornography, only fans. These are all would be bumped in these would all be bucketed into what you would call. compulsive sexual behavior or sexual addiction, right? Doing anything that you you know is not what you want to do. just like alcoholics would would drink and get drunk and and get out of control. It's the same kind of thing, right? So what happened with me, for context is I had been engaging these behaviors periodically. I'd say, you know, wasn't anything that I considered unmanageable or I certainly didn't think I was cheating. I didn't have girlfriends or have affairs. So I was like, well, I'm not, I'm just doing what guys do. Right. So that was my story for most of my my adult life. And on December 28th, 2018, I get stuck on a roller coaster. Okay. Upside down. And I was hanging there for 30 minutes. And that was my that was my we'll call it career rock bottom. I I I had realized in that moment I had been selfish. My whole life. I had been greedy my whole life. I had been just, you know, call it what it is, like just very self-centered. And I had all these gifts. I was the number one rep at Salesforce. And I had just been using my gifts to serve others. And I, as I was hanging out at that roller coaster, I'm like, if I died, this realization, if I died right now, I thought I was going to die because we're upside down and I'm up there 30 minutes. And I'm like, if I died right now. My life would have been wasted. All these gifts, all these things that about me, like I've kept to myself. And I made a commitment. I started praying. This is my first spiritual awakening. I started praying to God. I said, God, get me down from this coaster. And I promise I will start helping people right now. And when I did that, the ride started, it took off. And that was like, okay, there is a God. That was my biggest God shot. And I I kept that commitment. I actually started making videos on Instagram. And I made a video every day to help people live a better life. Well, meanwhile, this whole next year, I'm still in my addiction. So I still have these secrets. One of the days I went to Vegas, I binged hard and I totally like slipped up. And like I still had to make a video because I made a commitment to make a video every day. And I'm like sitting hungover in the hotel, like making this. And so this continued on for like a year of me coaching and making videos and you know. speaking and I I was getting good publicity. And then I had this like dark side, the secret that I hadn't dealt with yet. And so I kind of knew like I had to stop if I was going to be a coach and really serve from the heart because it felt inauthentic. And so I quit. I quit on my own, going to strip clubs. I'm like, my wife's not cool with this. I'm I'm, know, I had been addicted to strip clubs and I I I quit. I would go you know, several times a year. It wasn't like a daily thing or a weekly thing even, but it was like a quarterly thing. And every time I went, I was like, my secret, and I was secretive about it. I was sneaky about it. I would like take out cash and, you know, and and hide it. And and just like that's how you know it's addiction is when you're sneaky and and very intentional. And so I did that with with my, you know, with my strip club stuff. And and I knew my wife how she felt about it. So that I stopped. I just stopped. It stopped in July of 2019, about six months after the roller coaster incident. Cause I'm like, I can't keep doing this shit if I, you know, if I, if I I knew I had a problem. I fucking knew I had a problem. And and after one binge, like, after one binge, I like literally drove myself to an SAA meeting and and they told me what it was. And I'm like, I'm out. No way. I can't do I can't do that. So I left. I wasn't ready. I'm like, I'm gonna do it on my own. So this is in July of 2019. Okay. And and I stopped. I stopped entirely, but I really didn't stop. So at that time, I discovered webcams, which I considered to be like this virtual strip club. I was like, well, this is an internet. And it was literally women stripping on camera. Now OnlyFans is like blown up. And so now it's I'd say normal. But at the time, OnlyFans I I don't think existed. And and so I was, you know, paying women for. real real women for for you know to go on camera or to s you know to to do what you get the point, right? It's the stuff that people do on OnlyFans now. So I was doing that and then it I was doing that for like for six months. And then I heard another God shot and and it was like my guilty conscience. It's like, okay, I quit, but I'm still doing this thing. I just want to get my wife's permission. I want to know that she's cool with this. That was my way of like relieving the guilt, you know? And so I asked her on a random day in February of 2020, after I'd been six months free of strip clubs, and I thought I was sober. I literally thought I was sober at this time. I said, Honey, how do you feel about a virtual strip club? I think I asked her what that was. She's like, What's a virtual strip club? I'm like, it's it's a site where you go and women. you know, we'll we'll strip, but it's it's, you know, basically like fantasy. It's it's like a strip club because it's it's digital. And she's like, that exists and I said, I said, yeah. She's like, Do you go on those those? And I'm like, Yeah. And she's like, Well, well, how often do you go on those? I'm like, I don't know. every few weeks, I guess. I just wanna see how you felt about it. I you know, I wanna get your thoughts. I know you're not okay with strip clubs, but How do you feel about this? And she's like, she's kind of like taking it in. She's like, I don't know. I I I'm not really cool with that, Ian. I'm like, okay, okay. She's like, and we didn't, you know, we didn't, I don't I don't remember what happened. I think I went back to work. It was like at lunch or something. I and I came back the next the next after or that afternoon or that evening, and she had all my credit card statements printed out. Yeah, she had all my credit card statements printed out. And she's looking at them and it's highlight. And it's like five dollars here, $10 here, or $3 here. And it wasn't like a ton of money, but that's not the point. She saw a bunch of highlighted things over six months. And so it turns out I had been going every couple of weeks. So over six months, that was, you know, 12, 15, whatever. And she's like, what the fuck is this? She was so mad. I'm like, this is the thing I told you about. And she's like, this is not cool. And then she just started like, you know, just crying. and then, and then it got like really scary. she just started like uncontrollably like wailing. And then she started convulsing and shaking. She started shaking like a little, like a a child, like in the fetal position. She fell to the ground. And it was like, my God, what have I done? I hurt this one. And she was just like sobbing uncontrollably and was like, what have I done? Because one thing, if you think you're doing something to yourself, it's another thing to see the person you love that you've hurt in front of you on the ground. And then it got like life threatening where she started having contractions. She was pregnant. And she was four months pregnant. And I'm like, We gotta go, honey. We gotta go to the doctor right now. And so we literally went from like bad to worse. And I on that car ride, I'm thinking she's about to, you know, have a miscarriage because she was four months pregnant and you can't ha go into labor at four months. So I'm praying to God, praying with all my heart. I said, God, do not take this baby. I will do whatever it takes. I will get help. I will do whatever it takes. Do not take this baby. It's one thing to to To think you're hurting yourself and no one else is affected. It's another thing to think you're hurting the love of your life and causing them pain. It's a whole different level to think you've caused the death of your child. And that's what I was thinking at the time. I think I literally would have caused the death of my my son. and and that scared me sober. we get we get to the doctor and He does the ultrasound. I literally was petrified. I called my mom on the car ride. I'm like, mom, come to the hospital. Something's going on. I think Sandy's having a miscarriage. And I was so scared and I was just praying. I just prayed like with all my heart. I said, God, just help me, help me. Please don't take the baby. Please don't take the baby. And we get to the doctor. He puts the ultrasound device on our stomach. And for like the longest 20, 30 seconds, you know, I thought there wouldn't be a heartbeat. He looks up and he's like, there's a heartbeat. I'm like, thank God. He's like, the baby's okay. I'm like, thank God, thank you, thank you. And he's like, What happened? Did you cheat on her? You got a girlfriend or something? And I said, Well, something like that. I'm like, Have you seen that before? He's like, I see it all the time. Men who are hiding and their secrets come out and nearly causes a miscarriage or you know, a contraction. So I asked the doctor, I'm like, what happened? What are these contractions? She's like, Ian, these aren't labor contractions. She's not in labor. These are stress contractions. She's traumatized, and this is stress, and this is her body having stress, but the baby's okay. And and that was it for me. That was the the day I got sober. And I I never looked back. It's been six and a half years since I've gone to a strip club or webcam or massage parlor or any anything like that. And I I you know, I I truly like it took that fear of losing my son and and that seeing the pain I was causing my wife. And I'm like, I will never hurt my wife again. I will never, you know, I'm I'm never, I'm gonna face this thing. And so I You know, my next my next like visit was to SAA and I got an online and and my sponsor was leading the meeting and he agreed to be my sponsor and then I got into a I found a therapist specializing in in sex addiction. And you know, this is common. It's it's a very common thing to the point where these meetings are every hour on the hour all around the world. And and it's it felt so nice to know that I wasn't broken and then I found, you know, I found my my faith. And I realized that like this was in my human nature and that there was a better way to live through, you know, through Christ and and that I wasn't broken. And that became its own journey, you know, to to me getting baptized. But I think that it's important to realize like for people to change, the pain of staying the same has to be greater than the effort to change. And that's why in those rooms, almost everyone has a a rock bottom. Everyone has a story where it was like. you know, I I could have died. In my case, it was I could have killed, you know, my unborn son. And and that to me is what it took. I I hope and pray that it doesn't take that. But unfortunately, that seems to be the pattern in those rooms where a lot of the people get there because they reach a a bottom and that and they say never again. And that's that's kind of what happened to me. So it wasn't this like snap your finger, y you know, it was it was literally Me reaching a point where I fully surrendered unless I I said, I will do whatever it takes. And thank God that the baby was okay. My son Luke is he'll be six next month. He's healthy and happy and he's a miracle boy. And our family is I I just my wife and I will be 13 years married in August. And we overcame, you know, the hardest time during that period where I just got sober and I had to confess everything. But now I mean I know it. a healthy marriage looks like and marriage is super hard, but it's a lot harder if you have secrets that you're hiding. And there aren't secrets in our our marriage and that that makes it a lot easier to you know to to be a team.
Jolie Shapiro53:42.441
Wow. I really talk a lot, but pretty spookeless right now. That's that's an incredible story and I'm I mean, not in a good way, but I'm I'm really happy that everyone's okay, that you're okay, that your son's okay, that your wife's okay, that you know, that every that you all survived that. You know, I mean I have my own my own version that I won't get into because we're running out of time, but
Ian Koniak53:44.024
No.
Jolie Shapiro54:12.591
you know, I I definitely get the secrecy and you think you hit your rock bottom like yourself with the roller coaster and then you keep do and then you know you keep doing it. For me with a car accident that I told you about, I kept drinking. You know, it wasn't until I got, you know, something really, really awful happened with a it was an encounter with a with a guy. Next day I was like, I'm done. I'm done. That's that's fucking it. I'm fucking done. This is never happening again.
Ian Koniak54:25.829
Mm-hmm. Done. Yeah. That's exactly what happened to me. And and again, I think this it's interesting because I share like I share some of this online. I share, you know, my story, but like I think my my what I'm proud of, what I'm most proud of is like that I show up for my wife and my kids and that I'm a good husband and father. not always, you know, but I certainly don't do anything that's harmful. And I, you know. Again, I don't know if you have a male audience or female or both, but like I just cannot speak highly enough about honesty in a marriage, being honest with how you feel about whatever's going on, and certainly being honest. If you were to tell your partner every single thing you did in the shadows, what would they think and what would they feel? And that's That's what the true test of an honest marriage is. And I passed that test. I I literally took a lie detector afterwards and and showed her that I didn't have anything I was hiding. And it was the healing medicine. It really was. It was the medicine of saying like everything you know, you know about me now. And it's your choice whether you want to stay or or leave. And I'll just add one more thing. Like during that post recovery, you know, few months, There was a time when she went to stay with her mom for a week and I was by myself and I didn't know if she would come back. And I I felt at peace because it was her choice and I had God. I felt deep, deep love from my higher power that I had that I had been honest and and and that I was being honest and I wasn't continuing to act out and continuing to hide secrets. And for me that Again, for anybody who's struggling with this particular addiction where you're in and it's it's millions, Julie, it's millions. The OnlyFans popularity now is through the roof and people are accepting it as, you know, women's rights or men's freedom. But that's that's fine for the women if if that's what you want to do. Like I'm not saying you can't use your body or however you want to do it. I have no judgment there. What I'm saying is for the for the man at least. Be open with your partner of exactly what you're doing, what you're paying, who you're with, and see how they feel. And if they're cool, then more power to you. But that's not happening. I feel like there's more to my story than just addiction recovery. It's more about like marriage and what makes a what makes a happy, healthy marriage. Cause it's that's that's the thing I'm proud of is that I I I I I saved my marriage even after I had And and I'll give every bit of credit to my wife. Her forgiveness and her grace and her compassion during that time, it wasn't like she just said, sure, don't do it again. Like she wanted to leave me, but she was pregnant and we didn't she didn't have a job. I was the sole breadwinner. And she's like, I gotta figure out what I'm doing. I don't know. But like when she saw that I was putting my recovery first and our family first, she she saw the. the shift and she said, This is the person that I want to be with. but she didn't have to. She could have just shut off and said, I'm out. And and I think many women would do that. But this this is so common. It's more so common that you hear it all the time in the news. You hear all the people that are, you just hear it every day from celebrities or whatever, but the everyday person is also hiding and participating in these things and that's fine. That's fine if you're on the up and up with your partner. That's all I would encourage people is like, if you know your partner's not gonna okay, stop. If you can't stop, get help. You know.
Jolie Shapiro58:43.284
No, I I really appreciate you saying that, you know, your story isn't all addiction because it's it's how I d how it's actually how I kind of view my own life, like my, you know, neurodivergency or XYZ diagnoses or whatever, it's a part of my life. But it's not all of it. It's part of your story and it's who you become. But I mean, maybe we can have a follow episode. Follow up episode, maybe like six months about what it takes to have a good marriage, 'cause that would be that'd be a really interesting episode.
Ian Koniak59:13.347
I I'd love to I'd I keep trying to tell my wife like to come on my podcast or to come to my events that I host and we host retreats and you know, she's like, nope, she's she's pretty shy about it, but I'll I'll put this is our this is our our wedding pre-wedding picture. yeah. Yeah, she's she's sweet, but she won't go on camera. She's very she's very I'll show you one more. This is this is a little this is our little
Jolie Shapiro59:22.046
Nice. that is so cute. Sure.
Ian Koniak59:41.69
Baby Luke, this is the the miracle baby after he was born with my wife. And it's like, yeah, I'm just I'm just like again, my life, my recovery, my story is a miracle. It's a testimony to to the power of of God and and and and you know the ability for people to change and to live in a way that they're proud of. And I just want that for other people. That's that's what I'm here for.
Jolie Shapiro59:46.645
He's so cute. Ian Koniak (01:00:09.067) be it selling more, be it having a better marriage, be it getting sober from whatever whatever it is you struggle with, right? or if it's just, you know, just being happy in in in your daily life. Like that's that's what I want for people because most of the time that's how I feel. I live a very blessed life, but it wasn't it was it was by design, it was through a lot of work and And I do have the compass. I feel it. And I'm ADHD too. You talk about neurodivergent. I was on Adderall. Part of my when I got sober, I stopped getting so after I gave up porn, I stopped getting drunk. I stopped smoking weed and I stopped Adderall. So once I gave up porn in in the compulsive sexual behavior, all those other addictive behaviors, I became way more aware of, and then I stopped those too. So it was like this now I'm just bored. Like if I if I want to do something, I have to run or have to meditate or I got a journal or like I have other tools, but like I I don't have any of my my mind altering tools, that's for sure. so yeah, you kind of have to replace all the things that you have to replace the things you used to go to because I I had all of them and I dropped all of them. It was all of it at once. So it's like I am so I'm not sober from alcohol, but I I don't get drunk. I'll have two drinks and that's that's good. certainly don't take ecstasy, mushrooms, coke, any of the hard drugs or anything. but that's that's I think that's another important point is like pick the poison, the thing, the thing. Everybody's got the thing. Focus on that thing. Focus on that thing. If your thing is alcohol, start with alcohol. My thing was porn, start with porn. If it's weed, weed. But you don't have to be sober from everything. So I still have some wine. Once in a while, I'll go to a concert, I'll have a gummy. feel good. I just like I I'm not, you know what I mean? Like it's it's not you you gotta sobriety is different because everyone has different vices and pick the thing that's unmanageable, that's hurting your life. And that's where you'd start and find a 12 step for that specific thing. That that would be my advice for anyone because substitute alcohol, porn, whatever, pick your poison. There is a 12 step for that. And start there and go through the 12 steps and watch how you transform from the inside out and then all the other Ian Koniak (01:02:28.067) addictive behaviors become much easier to to reduce or stop altogether. Jolie Shapiro (01:02:36.709) That's great advice, thank you. And I know you've quite the following on LinkedIn, but where would you like us to find you, people that are listening? Ian Koniak (01:02:43.429) think LinkedIn. I mean, I am mostly, you know, I'm a sales coach, so I mostly teach tech sellers how to sell, but my program is is life coaching as well. It's it's very much how to how to achieve success outside of work, not just inside. So we we focus a lot on on health and and we focus a lot on like working less hours and not grinding. So you can spend more time with family and doing the things you love. That's the life I live and And I I think that's a lot of the stuff I post up. But if you find me on LinkedIn, that's a great place. If you're interested in you know, if you're a sales odd, you know, person and you wanna sell more without killing yourself and still have the joy outside, you can our company site is untap your salespotential dot com. And you know, you can talk to our team if you're interested in coaching or any of the stuff that w we do. happy to help there as well. But LinkedIn's a good place to start. Jolie Shapiro (01:03:43.333) Awesome. Thank you so much, Ian. This was this was I don't even have the words and I usually do. So thank you so much for coming on. Really, really appreciate it. Ian Koniak (01:03:51.205) You're welcome. My pleasure.