Jolie Shapiro00:01.816
Hey all, welcome to Revenue Mind, a podcast where Revenue Leaders talk all takes mental health. I'm Jill, your host, and with us is James. Welcome, James. sorry, Richard. Why the fuck do I have Richard? Exactly. This is why I fucking sorry. Sorry, pardon my language. This is why I have an editor. I do not know why. I have with us is welcome name and I had James. Let's do this over. This is a great first impression. I really know what I'm doing. That is gonna laugh his butt off.
Richard Harris00:11.337
Yeah. Yep. No no no. This is this You're right. Okay. I love it. I love it. I've believe me, I've I've I was on mute so many times for a point that someone sent me a mug that said, Richard, you're on mute on my podcast. So don't don't feel bad at all.
Jolie Shapiro00:31.34
Welcome. good. Okay. I feel better. Okay. I'm so sorry. I I had this James Buckley on yesterday. He's he's quite yeah, he's quite the personality. So of course he's awesome. But I of course I didn't change the name because I'm you know doing fifty thousand things. Okay, we're gonna start over now. Thank you. All right. Hey y'all, welcome to Revenue Mine, a podcast Revenue Leaders talk all things mental health. I'm Julie your host and with us is Richard. Welcome, Richard.
Richard Harris00:46.429
I know James. Yeah. Indeed, indeed. So Okay. Hello, how are you? I'm good, thanks. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Jolie Shapiro01:10.466
Good, how are you? Of of course, I know this is like you're approaching your five hundredth podcast, so I'm I'm surpr I mean, thank you for for being on. I mean, I'd be I'd be tired.
Richard Harris01:24.373
No, I appreciate it. We've recorded about I think we're at four hundred and eighty three of the podcasts we've recorded so far. So plus whatever else I've done. So I'm somewhere over five hundred podcasts. But I appreciate you having me on and I always wanna support others. So
Jolie Shapiro01:40.654
Yeah, really, really appreciate that. All right, so we're gonna get into the questions. Cool. Well the first question I typically ask is what makes you you beyond the title and everything that you do?
Richard Harris01:44.947
Yes. Mm, what makes me me? I wrestle and struggle with this a lot, right? Think what makes me me is I just enjoy trying to help people. Like that that's a big part of me. I've always liked that. I like as a kid, I actually wanted to be a teacher, but knew I couldn't, you know, afford a decent lifestyle that I wanted for for myself. so I think that's been a big piece of why I've always leaned more towards leadership roles, right? I was I'm a I've I would say and others have said that I'm probably a better leader than I am a sales rep. You know, I was I was a good, you know, you got a team of ten. I was, you know, good six or seven, right? Never the top, never the worst. And maybe two months a year I'd be at the top of the board, right? And I was okay with that. So I was I'm never the one who's so challenged and competitive that it that it just had to be that way. So I think there's this even keel to me that has always been there.
Jolie Shapiro03:07.906
Yeah. I can kind of feel it coming from the screen. Yeah, yeah. I've I have a weird thing with people. I when I was eight it can be for better or for worse. But when I was eight years old there was this woman who wasn't who's not to be mean, but to be mean, absolutely atrocious. And I told my parents at eight I said, I don't she's not a good person.
Richard Harris03:11.504
thank you. So Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it happens that way sad sadly sometimes, you know. But but thank you for the compliment. I I'll take that.
Jolie Shapiro03:36.847
Yes. Yes, that was definitely a compliment because if I'm catching that at eight y yeah, that's that's your it's a very low bar, apparently. So no, it but I can definitely that I can feel your vibes as a Gen Z or say. But we'll get into the questions rather than me kissing your or what is it, brown nosing? first question. So you've said
Richard Harris03:42.12
I'm less than atrocious. That's good to know. Right. thank you. Yeah. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro04:05.888
Imposter syndrome has been with you your whole life. Which means it might be in the room right now on this podcast. So while people call you one of the top sales leaders in the industry, what is this saying to you in the exact moment, meaning the imposter syndrome? And how do you answer it in real time?
Richard Harris04:08.957
Yes. Yeah, that's a good question. I've done a lot of work on therapy on myself. So I know a lot of that stems from my own anxiety and depression, right? And I talk about this freely. So I understand that there's a source for it. I can get into the, you know, mom loved me too much, daddy nodded off and tell you all kinds of stories. But no nobody was abusive to me. Like I I don't I definitely don't want to claim that I had this hard childhood. I did not have a hard childhood. but mentally I think that's where it stems from. anxiety and and depression and just not being comfortable thinking I deserve things that I have earned. you know, whether it's an accreditation or even like what early in my sales career, when I would have major successes, I would be like, Well, why do I why do I get that check? You know, like what what did I do? How how you know, how is that happening? And even to your point about right now, it's like, yeah, why does anybody want to listen to me? Right? And so I've had to condition myself, for lack of a better phrase, to be more kind to me, to recognize that this is how I'm thinking. That's not always how the world sees and perceives you. And so that, you know, again, I think that comes from a lot of therapy. I had to have some help along the way, some hard conversations with. myself and with people to ask them for advice or share how I was feeling. but that's that's what it's like. It it's not as prevalent as it used to be. I think when I go into slumps, like where I'm, you know, where, my gosh, it's been a month since I've closed a deal, I start to get, well, my God, maybe I'm not good at this anymore. Right. and I don't know that that's any different than anybody else. But I think it used to drag me down a lot for me.
Jolie Shapiro06:26.158
It makes a lot of sense. Do you ever feel like sorry I have my own version of that part of why I started this podcast, but do you ever feel like you're waiting for the shoe to drop? Because I feel that a lot. Yeah.
Richard Harris06:31.881
Yeah. Always, always. I'm always I'm always in that state. and I think again, I think there are the highly competitive people I know who are real like w what I would consider the real athletes growing up, they use that at a fire different than the level I use it at a fire. I use it as a fire to, okay, don't sit still, go do better. They use it as a fire to go be the best. Not only am I not gonna let it bother me, I'm gonna crush that thing. And sometimes I get to that stage, but not always. But I've noticed that in my reality of how I view myself and the world, right? And so yeah, so that's that's sort how it sits.
Jolie Shapiro07:27.978
Yeah, I was always curious because I feel like not I feel I think for myself I'll speak from I statements. Same same therapy and program and all the above. yeah, you do you. I like that. I'm I'm probably gonna steal that. now lost my train of thought. what was it? No, we're good. I liked your answer, so I'm gonna move on. I don't always need to respond.
Richard Harris07:38.702
Right. You do you. All right. All right.
Jolie Shapiro07:55.341
I was actually with a c soin I was actually with a client the other the other day and I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna I'm gonna not talk because I do plenty of just unsolicited talking. What's up?
Richard Harris08:06.676
I say that all the time, by the way. No, I so I'm in deals all the time or whatever. And I'll and I literally will catch myself and I will say, my God, I'm gonna shut up now. What questions do you have? Like I literally call it out because one, I think we all know in sales when we talk too much. And two, it's a fun way to sort of re-engage the person. I realize that they all gotta giggle. They're like, yeah, I know what that's like, you know. And it creates that pause that's different than that pause and sales of, well, does that make sense? You know, which is a terrible question to ask. But anyway, I I digress. I know we're getting off track, but I say it all the time, I'm gonna shut up now. Steal that, use it. It works.
Jolie Shapiro08:48.379
I will. No, it does. And also, yeah, so I actually I tend to bum this will either make it or not, depending on whether my what my editor thinks. But we James Buckley and I called him Kevin in the Sky and we both started laughing. He's his name's Kevin. We're like Kevin in the Sky, can you cut that? But I what was it? so I got I tend to bum I'm in marketing, but I with the love of sales. But I I tend to bum I s because I didn't want to talk about myself, I actually tended to bombard people with questions, like way too many questions. So the p I don't know if you've had similar experience, but it was to the point where someone said, You're interrogating me.
Richard Harris09:27.89
Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a fine line there between what we need to do in sales and to to build trust, right? And not overdo it. And I think, yeah, we've all had that challenge. And anybody who hasn't had that challenge, I'd love to know how they figured that out early on in life. You know. So, but yeah, I agree with you. We we do tend to talk too much and sometimes we can ask too many questions.
Jolie Shapiro10:03.694
Exactly. Speaking of questions, next one. great. So an excellent answer, by the way. So your own framework says no deal closes without a compelling event. What do you think about getting help working the exact same way? Nobody starts therapy on a someday. What was your compelling event, if you don't mind sharing?
Richard Harris10:07.326
Yeah. Mm-hmm. no, I don't mind sharing at all. I talk about it all the time. I woke up in San Francisco one day, in bed and physically could not move. I was crawled up into the fetal position and I didn't understand what was happening. I didn't know. and on paper, everything looked good, right? I was living in San Francisco in a great neighborhood, single. Had my own apartment, no roommate, which was not easy to do. Right. Had a great job, but I was just miserable. And I, you know, I I did what all nice little kids do is got up and called my mom and I said, Mom, I don't know what's wrong. What do I do? And her first answer was, Well, just get on a plane and come home. You know? And I my immediate reaction was, I can't do that, mom. And she goes, Why? I said, Because if I do that, the city wins. Meaning being in this big city, bigger city than I was used to with all these smart people. You know, this is this is early 2000s, right before the first stop bomb. and I just that was the first thing that came out of my mouth that I never even thought about it. then she picked up the phone and she called a friend who knew somebody who was a therapist in San Francisco, and that became my therapist for 20 plus years. You know, my my wife and I have seen her when we've wanted to do couples counseling. My sons have seen her when they've had a couple of things. Now that now if they do something, they they want to go to someone else. They don't want to go to mom and dad's therapist, which totally respect. I'm like, good for you to recognize it. Good on you to like stand up for what you need, you know, which is what it's all about. But that was my moment. That was that was my moment. And I found out that I had a, you know, the doctor described it as not. He said it was depression, but not like a deeper, deeper depression. Like I never wanted to hurt myself. I never wanted to hurt other people. I was just sad all the time, underneath it all, right? I was I was hiding from myself, my true self. And I the best way I can describe it was it felt like I was walking around with 10 pound weights on each leg. So I could still move and I could function, but I was just carrying this burden, this heavy, heavy burden. and that was that that was my moment.
Jolie Shapiro13:02.4
the story and I know you share it a lot so I really appreciate you rehashing it. How I kind of think about it for for myself is a cloud over my head. It's like this like this thunderstorm that's over your head and it's it just it does not go away.
Richard Harris13:06.612
Sure. Sure, sure. Mm-hmm. Yes, I've I've had that too, right? I've also had this thought that like there's someone inside me pulling on a string holding my heart down. Right. Like there's these these things that are holding us back, you know, whatever our whatever your vision of that is, whatever my vision, that's just the best way I could always describe it. So I I completely empathize with with how you felt. thank you for sharing.
Jolie Shapiro13:45.135
Yeah, no, definitely. let me cut you off there. I also have this visual sometimes. I don't think I've ever talked about it here on a podcast, but almost like maybe you can relate to this, but like toxins kind of like photographic. But kind of like this toxicity, kind of kinda like what you said, the person in your brain. My mine I imagine like a like a black ooze, almost like Spider-Man's counterpart. Like a venom.
Richard Harris14:02.171
No. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I get it. Yeah, yeah. I under but I under I underst I've never thought about it that way, but I know exactly what that feels like. So I yeah, I I get it. That that makes total sense to me.
Jolie Shapiro14:14.954
In my brain, yeah. 'Cause I'm a nerd. So appreciate that. I'm I'm happy that my creepy analogy made sense.
Richard Harris14:32.36
I think I think anybody who's gone through what we've gone through is like, Yeah, I know that feeling, you know. I think so. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro14:36.296
Yeah. No, pretty much. Yeah, there's like there's a v there's like a a Spider Man's anti scary. Spider Man's what is it? Anti-Spider-Man inside of us, apparently. Venom, yeah. my gosh. great. Well that th thank you again for sharing that. So
Richard Harris14:49.244
Russ, apparently so. Yes. Yeah, Venom. Sure.
Jolie Shapiro15:01.504
You talk about therapy and medication out loud, which is wonderful. I love that you share your stories. It's in an industry that runs on, you know, presidents' love photos and commission checks, yada yada yada. Two-part question. What did staying quiet cost you before you started talking? And what has talking cost you since?
Richard Harris15:05.254
Mm-hmm. Hmm, what made me stay quiet? Well, I think was the embarrassment. I didn't want to be one of those people, right? I thought only I thought only crazy people took medication, right? I thought that taking medication meant you would be institutionalized. And, you know, I when I think of institution, I think one flew over the cuckoo's nest movie, not the healthy institutions that do exist. And I I've I've I have never done a self-therapy or self-check-in or been in an institution, but I applaud those who do go because that's what they need. Right. And that's that's self-care and self-help. And I, you know, I I I recognize that. But I think the embarrassment was a big part of it. what has it cost me since then? I don't I sometimes I don't know what it might have cost me. Like I I don't you know maybe someone's chosen a competitor because they saw my story online but they didn't tell me. Right? Like they never they never told me. I think You know, I started therapy when I was single because I I was not a great dater. meaning I didn't date, I was afraid of it. not not that I was bad to to women. maybe because I did I started to learn how to talk about therapy. maybe it scared somebody off along the way, but I you know, I'm married now, so that person clearly wasn't the right person, but they also didn't tell me. Right. Like they didn't say that that was the issue. So maybe it cost me some things there. it has strengthened my relationship with my wife. It was one of the early things we discussed, and we both had admitted that we'd done therapy and recognized wow, this person has the tools or the desire to get the tools if they need them. you know, we've talked about therapy with my kids forever. So I think it's gained me that. So I don't know what I lost, but I think I've gained so much I don't even think about it. In fact, I've never until you ask me, nobody's ever asked me that question. I never thought about it that way.
Jolie Shapiro17:56.761
I love that you're that you're thinking about the positive versus that
Richard Harris18:03.09
Yeah, that's pretty rare for someone like me. I usually do focus on the neg on the negatives, right? So
Jolie Shapiro18:05.922
Ditto. Yeah. And I have a very I have a very not not all the time, but kinda have a what do they call it? yeah, the dark cloud, but also like your lens. Like your lens is very not yours, like our lens can be very negative. So Exactly.
Richard Harris18:18.546
The dark cloud. It's the dark cloud cloud. Yeah. Yes, yes. It can be skewed to the negativity. Yeah.
Jolie Shapiro18:32.046
Perfectly said. has anyone ever used it against you? I don't it doesn't seem like it doesn't seem like they have.
Richard Harris18:42.298
I don't think they have unless they were manipulating me. And I didn't realize it. That's that's, you know, that's, you know, I I, you know, for lack of a better phrase, in a good way, you know, my therapist probably used it against me to get me to stop thinking that way. Right. But she did it in a positive way. If I really had to sit down and go, hmm, that's what they're doing, is they're pulling levers to get you to shift your mind and shift your thinking. So But they've I d you know, to me that's a positive album.
Jolie Shapiro19:15.916
That's great. I I I can definitely as someone who's been in therapy for mm almost fifteen years now, I can definitely sense that you've you've taken a lot from it. Just by the way you speak.
Richard Harris19:23.828
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I have. I have. Thank you. Thank you.
Jolie Shapiro19:32.91
Course. I call it I tend to throughout my journey, I'd I'd love to hear your sense on this or your or take on this. I tend to think about peeling back the onion in terms of every there's always not always something, but I would fix something, fix quote unquote, fix something and then something else and pop up, peel that back, fix something, pop it up. would love to hear your take on that.
Richard Harris19:43.022
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah, I think yeah, I I called them sprints when I was with my therapist. You know, there would be times where like I was working through something and usually some history, right? Probably involved my dad. and it would take two or three sessions, right? and I would know that going in. I would know that when I brought up when this topic sort of took root in the conversation, that sometimes it gets resolved, you know, in a session. Sometimes it takes a session, then you got to go think about it some more and then come back and talk about what you were thinking about while about this situation. So that that's my interpretation of of how you said it, you know, and and you know the joke is, you know, particularly if I've got I've got kids, I'll be like, that's six weeks of therapy right there. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like that's I d I know that problem. That problem's gonna take about three weeks. You know. So you know, to to to slap it around a little bit, I suppose. So
Jolie Shapiro21:02.656
Yeah, no, I'm I'm laughing because it's so true. Because you didn't want enough like, that's gonna take XYZ amount of time to set back.
Richard Harris21:05.425
Yeah. Yeah. yeah, that's gonna take some time. Okay. But that for me, that was also a relief because it meant that I was working on it. Like it was an indication that, okay, this is something that's really important. Like all joking aside, right? Like this is something that's important. I'm not afraid to discuss it anymore. I didn't even know I should be discussing it sometimes. And then I just knew there was a process and I had to work the process, you know, and that that's how it worked for me.
Jolie Shapiro21:39.404
No, that's great. Actually, I just started well restarted. I I don't think I was really ready for it, but EMDR. It's I my gosh. since I just started, I can't remember the acronym. But it's essentially reprocessing memories. And instead of them being fractured trauma, you blend the memory. So it you kind of pull it back into a quote unquote regular memory, your memory bank. So
Richard Harris21:46.974
I don't know that. What's that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro22:07.212
What's really interesting about it is you you kind of gave me the you gave me the thought. that processing and not that anything is ever gonna be normal, but at the very least it's part of you and it doesn't define you.
Richard Harris22:21.18
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yes. I that I I get it. Yeah, you've just got to you can as I like to say, you can put it in a box, wrap that box in duct tape and put it in the back of the closet. It's still there. And I and I know it's there and it's something that I learned from, but it doesn't need to be front and center. That's how I interpret what you just said. because yeah, I I think I've done many of that.
Jolie Shapiro22:50.814
for sure. Yeah, there's so many different techniques in therapy, but that's that's just one name for many. One thing I got when I had pretty severe anxiety, I got taught the reframe method. That is saved me.
Richard Harris22:54.041
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. I had to do I did that in the my therapist, we she would call it double chair work, where I would have the conversation with my father. And I literally had to get up and move from one chair to the other to respond as him and my mom too, sometimes. It's not all about my dad.
Jolie Shapiro23:11.032
The thought counter thought.
Richard Harris23:32.83
To figure that piece out so that I could reframe this conversation.
Jolie Shapiro23:38.378
Exactly. And it's it's just I find it so psychologically interesting how sometimes we or we I I can't I keep saying we statements and I've learned the the the best of that. You do you. I'm gonna that might be the title of the the podcast. I've learned kind of along the years that or over the years that it's really
Richard Harris23:46.194
Mm-hmm. Right. You do you.
Jolie Shapiro24:08.046
really tough. It's really it's it's not easy. You know, number one, it's not easy to feel that way. And I think people honestly I think people go to therapy are really brave because you're pro every everyone like you mentioned, like everything's in a box in the back of the room, but it's or back of the closet, but it's still there. And people can either choose to address it and have a very you know have a very be content, have a sense of self, even when everything's a
Richard Harris24:21.682
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro24:38.094
pardon my French, cluster fuck around them or they can put everything under the rug. So it just I really respect and and I don't think someone needs to really have some sort of, you know, diagnosis to have trauma.
Richard Harris24:40.07
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. I agree. Everybody's got something. You know, I think my my cousin, you know, said it great once. She told me she's you know what, the happiest people I know go to therapy. And I was like, that's so true. Like, if you really go to therapy and you dive in, you actually do come out happier, right? Like it's it's you get you get out of it what you put into it. So it's it's it's worth every bit of it.
Jolie Shapiro25:17.322
Exactly. my therapist the other day said, You're you did a great job today. I'm like, I didn't know I could be good at therapy. I don't know if you've ever gotten that, but I've I've gotten that.
Richard Harris25:26.388
Right. So I I did I I somewhere along the lines of my first couple of therapy sessions, my therapist, you know, I think she could tell early on that I really wanted to solve this. Like I I there would be times I'd go to therapy and be like, I don't know what to talk about today. And she would just sit there and just, you know, something would finally come up and you'd be like, Wow, I didn't know that was gonna happen today. Right. but when I first started therapy, at some point. She she looked at me and she says, you know what? I I think we're gonna have a lot of fun with this. And for me that helped because I I have a sarcastic wit sense of humor. And to know that it could be fun was a was a little bit of a relief. Like it was like, this isn't me laying on the sofa in some Freudian approach of all this stuff and you know thinking in s through some negative light. And so that that hooked me a little bit better. And somehow she knew that's what I needed to hear at the right moment, at the right time. so yeah. yeah, you you get those weird comments from your therapist that are like, okay, I am good at this, right? some of that validation I think we're we're s often looking for.
Jolie Shapiro26:45.582
Exactly. It reminds me of I just had a really weird connection. Right time, right message, right channel, right person, but for your brain.
Richard Harris26:52.922
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. That's a perfect way to look at it.
Jolie Shapiro26:58.562
I'm thank you. I mean I am a six and X six sensor, so I I have a little bit l leg up there. But it's fun to make the psychology connection. All right. so a couple more questions if you sorry, we're gonna say. Okay, great, awesome. Okay. great. that actually I led right into that by accident. Thank you, Kevin the Sky.
Richard Harris27:04.814
Mm-hmm. Yes, you do. Cool. Please. No, go ahead. Go go ahead.
Jolie Shapiro27:27.35
All right, so your method is earning the right, or at least what I've gathered, is your method is earning the the right to ask the right question at the right time. So we've been talking for a little bit now. So I'm gonna cache that in. I don't know if you ever watch shoots, but there's there's like the cash in. So what's a question you always hope interviewers don't ask?
Richard Harris27:32.829
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro27:53.255
And is there any way that I've earned the right to ask it?
Richard Harris27:54.514
Inter There's no there's no question you can't ask me. You can ask me anything. Like the guy I've I've done enough therapy in my life and enough podcasts to know that I'm pretty fearless about this. So ask me anything.
Jolie Shapiro28:10.494
okay, sounds great. So question, follow-up. I prepared for this that you're gonna that you were gonna be like, you can ask me, you know, about my entire family dynamics and we'll dive right into it. my gosh. okay, so you teach reps to respect the silence after a hard question.
Richard Harris28:17.639
Mm. I'm sure. Yes you can. I got all kinds of stories. Mm-hmm.
Jolie Shapiro28:41.784
So What is your do you feel like you're comfortable with silence? And we kind of said this in the beginning, but or ex but like what are you the kind of person that's comfortable with silence or do you always have to fill in the silence?
Richard Harris29:01.728
I think I've gotten more comfortable with silence. I think I've learned it as a skill. I don't think it's my natural instinct. I'm a talker. So I do have to sort of be very mindful about it. I also think we were talking earlier about, you know, sometimes I'll say, my God, I've been talking too much. I'll shut up now. Right. That's that's an example of me recognizing this and and using that phrase and then saying, What questions do you have for me? And then waiting for them to answer. So I think I've been I've been conditioned to that. I am not a fan of the thought that, you know, whoever speaks first loses. If that's your mentality in sales around a topic. Well then what that really tells me is you're not asking the right question. you need to ask a better question. And that to me is is my my interpretation of that. So I don't like that phrase a lot. granted it I probably do the same thing. That's why I am silent. I just I just don't like the cliche nice of it all, if that's a word.
Jolie Shapiro30:25.88
Sorry, was that last part?
Richard Harris30:27.442
I don't like the clicheness of, you know, whoever speaks first loses. So I don't know if clicheness is a word or not, but I'm making it one. So yeah.
Jolie Shapiro30:36.76
We're gonna make it a word. We're gonna it'll be it'll be your word from now on. So anything that I guess to expand on it, anything that I haven't asked that you would like to share with the audience that you would like to leave them with?
Richard Harris30:40.936
There you go. No, I I think the only thing I would I would say to people is, you know, yes, you do you. Try not to be afraid to make that phone call or ask that friend. you know, I remember the day that day that I woke up. This is the story I'll kind of end on. The day that I woke up, my mom, I was talking to my mom, and she said, Why don't you call your friend Brian, who lives in the city, who's like my college roommate. See if he can meet you for a beer after after work. Just you know, catch up with him. And you know, I went and talked to Brian, and and he he was there for me as as I as I knew he would be, and I would be for him. And we were talking about it, and I said, This is how I feel, and I feel it all the time. And he looked at me and he's like, I don't know what that feels like. Like, I I I am here to to talk to you, but I can't, I I've never felt that way. And and that was a really brave thing for someone like that to say to someone like that. That meant that we are close and tight. because I didn't take that as rejection, and I could see a lot of people thinking, my god, now I am the only one. It really is me. And so I just want people to know that don't be afraid to make that phone call. It's not about what that person you talk to says, it's about the fact that you get to just voice your concern and you get to. Say it out loud in a way that now creates a little bit of separation between you and that emotion. Right? It's now it's not all inside you. Some of it's outside you. And that relief, that that stress, pressure relief matters. So just because someone doesn't necessarily understand it doesn't mean they don't care. It just means that they may not be the person to, you know, help in a way that you might need help. Right. They're there to help as a friend. They're not there to help to help you solve the problem. other than to just be a friend, which is part of the solving the problem, right? So someway, I think that's that's that might be the thing that you didn't ask about, which is well, what did I do that the rest of that afternoon when you were feeling that way? That that's what I did and that's what I learned from.
Jolie Shapiro33:11.982
That's amazing. It and thank you for filling in the gaps that I didn't ask with my with my nerves. I appreciate that. Kevin, please cut that out. that actually that reminds me of something my uncle said and something that I think I've struggled with for a long time, which is I tend to expect things from people.
Richard Harris33:18.226
That's all right.
Jolie Shapiro33:38.059
Not not like in a in a high maintenance way, more like I try and push and push and push my myself to open up to them for them to be the one to for them to be the person I need them to be. And your story really resonated with me and almost it it gave me chills because I'm like, wow, maybe I don't need to have everyone be the person that I need them that I need them to be. Maybe they can show up the way they are and that'll be enough.
Richard Harris33:38.29
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's I think that's I think that's the key is you gotta let people show up and the fact that they're showing up is what matters. That's what matters, is that they're willing to show up, not what they can or cannot do for you. Right? Because that's all we need is just that little piece of someone to show up and be present for a few moments. That that's the best place to be, I think. Everything else is gravy.
Jolie Shapiro34:37.55
Cherry on top. Well thank you so much. This was this was awesome.
Richard Harris34:42.279
My pleasure.
Jolie Shapiro34:45.676
Well where can we find you?
Richard Harris34:48.178
Yeah, this is you you'll get a kick out of this. Well, first you can find me on LinkedIn, Richard Harris. I'm the one with a little trademark emoji. but 415-596-9149, 415-596-9149. That's my real cell phone number because it's the only number my kids reach out to me to talk to me, especially when they need money. So yes, I will take a text, I will take a phone call. Probably best to text me ahead of time to say you heard me on the revenue mine so I know some context coming from it. But yeah, hit me up anytime. I'm happy to talk about sales, life, mental health, status of sales and mental health, all those things.
Jolie Shapiro35:33.666
that's one of the probably the best closure I've ever had. So I really appreciate that. Thank you.
Richard Harris35:37.238
thanks. My pleasure. You'd be I will tell you, it's always my closer. Nobody ever calls. Nobody ever texts. Nobody ever writes. It's hilarious. Like I put it out there just as a joke. And I'm like, my God. And someone's like, you know, we get like twenty thousand downloads. I'm like, Yeah, nobody will call me, don't worry. They're like, Really? I'm like, Yeah. Like, nobody does so you know.
Jolie Shapiro36:01.166
Well, it's really nice of you to do that. I don't is it okay if I put in the show notes your your number? Okay. We'll see. We'll we'll do an A B test. I'll do one with it one with it, one without it. Awesome. Well thank you so much.
Richard Harris36:06.78
Yeah. Yeah, why not? Yeah, yeah. Sounds good. I don't yeah, no problem. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to like have a different kind of sales conversation. I I appreciate that. I respect it a lot.
Jolie Shapiro36:25.647
you I appreciate that.